Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

Just watched the 2nd episode there. What's the lore on Galadrials ability to swim, wielding a sword was one thing but being able to swim too ? was it ever explicitly stated that she was both lady of the lake and Lothlorien 😋.

In all seriousness tho I'm not really feeling the Galadriel stuff at all , it's all a bit one note. The rest of the episode I thought was pretty good. I enjoyed them exploring the different concepts of time the Elves and Dwarfs have by having Durin chew his friend Elrond out for missing 20 years of his life. Arondirs exploration of the Tunnel and the orc attack in Bronwyn House was suitably tense. Then there's the mystery man Nori has found. Lots of intriguing set ups to be explored down the road .

Two episodes in and I'm just kind of, well meh on it.

It's not as offensively bad as people are making it out to be, but it's certainly not as groundbreaking as others make it out to be.

Visually it's great, like it's absolutely fantastic looking. Galadrial is interesting, but not really getting the whole "tom boy" claim people are making about her, so I'd love if someone can expand on that for me.

The timeline and skips are just confusing, and honestly I'm having a hard time staying focused on it. Still, it's only 2 episodes in and 6 more to go so maybe it will turn it all around.

Still not as bad as The Hobbit was.

On the Elves, while Galadriel and Elrond were perfectly cast in the Jackson films, as a whole I would say the Elves were just....not exactly a riveting part of the trilogy. I recall Legolas getting plenty of **** as well.

So if there is an issue with the Elves in RoP, perhaps it's an issue translating from the literature to film. The difference being that Jackson tried to make them work as they were, whereas these lads running RoP are ripping up the script so to speak (to so far disappointing results).

A fair question, I can answer it but I won't promise it will be a full thing. I try and steer clear of online drama around these things, but for context, I've been a huge Tolkein fan since I was a wee lad in the 80's. Hell, my mam used to read me the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings was the first "proper" book I ever read, albeit taking me several months to do so. With that said, I'm no lore master. I also believe it's far, far too early to leave a review on this show.

For example, the first 3-4 episodes of Breaking Bad were not well received way back, but over time became one of the biggest shows ever (I'm not saying that will happen here, just that you need to watch the full thing before reviewing)

1. You are absolutely right that Amazon and others are using the racist comments as a reason to dismiss the genuine feedback. But studios will often find the easiest way to ignore feedback.
2. However, I do not believe that is the complete narrative, I think that's more like a bias confirmation that we all are victim of, especially when it comes to looking things up on Google, which gives a very skewed result depending on you. It may be the narrative being pushed by Amazon and IMDB, but looking around you can also see a **** load of genuine reviews.

Frankly, I don't care about some Elves and so on being black in the Rings of Power, as it has no impact on characters themselves. Personally, I believe that unless the race of a character is an implicit point of the characters background, personality and history, then it doesn't matter. For example, Ronald Weasely is from Harry Potter comes from a big ol ginger, freckle faced family and it is a defining trait of their family, so changing him to Asian would be kinda weird, same can be said for the Black Panther and even Derek Vinyard from American History X. These are examples of characters were their skin colour is a direct part of the written character.

However, Princess Disa (the wife of Durin) being a black woman, literally zero bearing on the character and doesn't matter. But there are people upset about this and calling it woke. What does bother me is that the Dwarf women don't have **** beards god damn that is so damn stupid.

Now, while you can link to sites like Sky and CBR (Daily Mail will just **** stir no matter what for clicks), we can also link to /r/kotakuinaction where you can find dozens of threads from the last week or two going on about "forced diversity" "woke agenda" and for some reason "the great reset" because there is a sadly vocal subset (yes, it is a minority) of insanely racist people out there (who honestly I don't even think would be that big a fan of Tolkein) who absolutely losing it over the "woke changes.". And there's a number of threads on that same page with people having a conversation about it, discussing the issues with the Silmarillion and why the Amazon version of characters is so different (apparently a rights issue which is **** dumb), quickly followed by another thread which is little more than fanboys begging for a taste of Elon Musks taint

But like I said, it's so easy to find thread and articles filled with super valid, constructive and accurate feedback on the flaws of the show, but it gets filled up really quickly with the assholes who ruin it.

But even on this thread, we have posters here getting really damn upset over Galadrial taking on an Ice Troll in a matter of seconds, but I doubt they had an issue with Legolas taking down a freaking Oliphaunt while counting how many people he killed.

Again, constructive criticism is always good and needed for both good and bad shows, but there's no denying a massive level of sexism when it comes to comparison here. Man can do yes, woman can do no.

It would be great if we could all move on the which youtube reviewer is racist debate and actually discuss the episodes themselves.

Respectfully

Things like what was in the box Durins Dad showed him .

Is the the scepter looking thing Bronwyns child found under the floor actually the hilt of Saurons sword.

While it seems odd for the Elves to still hold a grudge against the humans who allied with Morgoth a thousand years ago, does the fact one of them had this buried under his floorboards suggest they were right to.

How amazing did Kazadhum look . Was this what Gimli was expecting to show the fellowship when they went through the moon door.

In the first episode Galadriel said that their torches would hold no warmth where evil tread or some such, are we then the assume Nori not being burned in the burning crater is significant.

Things like what was in the box Durins Dad showed him . - Mithril i expect, hence the subtle glow

Is the the scepter looking thing Bronwyns child found under the floor actually the hilt of Saurons sword - I dont recall any specific artifacts being found RE Sauron in the second age - I suspect its an original concept for the show - my suspicion is that its a morgul blade (canon doesnt line up but its amazon so) - they may say it was wielded by one of Morgoths lieutenants - possibly sauron, possibly a balrog - the effect of it catching fire matches exactly the Witchkings sword in Return of the King, extended edition

While it seems odd for the Elves to still hold a grudge against the humans who allied with Morgoth a thousand years ago, does the fact one of them had this buried under his floorboards suggest they were right to. - This is the one non canon part of the episode i liked - The vast majority of Morgoths allies were Orcs - Balrogs (technically the same species as Sauron himself) were also present - Its been years but i dont recall many humans being involved - the ones that went on to fight for Sauron in the trilogy were actually Black Numinoreans - who dont exist yet as they emerge after the fall - But yes this is an interesting part for me too - im not an expert so someone else might answer

In the first episode Galadriel said that their torches would hold no warmth where evil tread or some such, are we then the assume Nori not being burned in the burning crater is significant. I Said before IMHO - i cannot see the meteor man being Sauron - I doubt it is significant. Sauron would be able to speak. And he would show no interest in lowly fireflies. Also amazon seem to be sticking with the idea that Sauron is somewhere in Middle Earth so - he wouldnt be arriving on middle earth. I suspect this is a trick to make audiences think Mystery Man is Sauron

Actually received two messages on WHATSAPP saying the same thing. Looking forward to later on and watching it for myself -

• Im interested in the Elvish Occupation of Morgoth Aligned Lands - hoping this is covered
• Curious to see the the young lad with the presumed Morgal Blade
• Would really be hoping that the plot evolves and we dont just have more introductions etc

Anyway - im looking forward to it so!

well said, this show has managed to hire mediocre actors at best, led by a couple of no names from Bad Reboot, my wife said after the first one, "was it written by 8 year olds?" and hearing episode 3 is no improvement, I wonder will Amazon go through the 5 stages of grief, they seem to be in the denial phase now? ha ha!

Got the same vibe from Halbrand's story as well.

Arondir's story progressed as did the Harwood migration and 'The Stranger' proves useful.

Episode 3 - Better than 1 and 2 - but thats not a high bar - id stretch to 5/10 myself

THE GOOD

• Halbrand - yes he is a very interesting character - he is thus far my favorite character for the show, by a country mile
• Númenor - yea its an interesting place for sure. It looked great - kinda highlighted the idea that the survivors of these people will eventually found Gondor
• The Orcs tunneling around Mordor is pretty cool - certainly .. The revelation of the mark as being a map - yes, i had heard as much. But the delivery was good. what was good also was the two plots interwoven, between the Orcs/Elvish Prisoners - and Galadriel making the connection to the map.

The Bad

• Galadriel as a character is still very hard to like. It is not just the canon violations - this new Galadriel is annoying, and incredibly rude. The real Galadriel (as written) would have handled the scene with the Queen entirely differently - she would have been diplomatic, courteous, and clever. Ignore if you wish but i visualize her laying praise on the queen, her people, and the Captain who saved her life. She would have stated that, although the Numinorians no longer care for the Elves, her people still hold them in the highest regard. She would have praised the entire Kingdom of Numenor, as having the right to do as it pleases, having earned that right. Then she would have begged their leave, and undoubtedly been granted a small ship and safe passage - Instead she basically insults them, they only exist because her people said so. And she will do as she wishes, because..... whatever
• I cannot understand the decision to have Galadriel shown riding a horse in slow motion. It knocked me out of the story. You can relate this to the above Galadriel specific criticism, but its entirely different. This is a fault of the show runners and directors - The episode was doing VERY well (by its own below par standards) up until this moment - then i genuine let out a WTF?? I get they have to pad the story out quite a bit - but this is a Joke. Slow motion smiling. Followed by Slow Motion cloaks - followed by slow motion IMPOSSIBLY WHITE HORSE - Cringe inducing
• The Hobbits - OMG the hobbits - their accents. Their behavior. Their very existence - VERY VERY poor
• Mystery Man - His plot didnt advance at all - again, yes they have to pad it out. I know that. But i think its obvious who (or at least what) he is - just get on with it. Or if you must, skip a few episodes and then have your revelation -
• I personally find it VERY annoying that Isildur et al, are alive BEFORE the Rings of Power, and more importantly the One Ring- this is purely my own issue, so i wont assume others have this same gripe.
• The Pacing in general is poor. Again when you look at what they got right (Halbrand, the orcs, the map) - The purposeful padding is horrendous. They should have been content to have shorter seasons, in order to keep the pace up to speed.

Thats it for this week for me - 5/10 seems overly fair by my reckoning - its an improvement.

In relation to the series as a hole (supposed spoilers for the season)

• The fact im liking Halbrand will collapse entirely if he turns out to be Sauron - even watching this episode, you can see elements pointing in numerous directions. so i am HOPING this rumor is incorrect. A conflicted character, with a horrid past is a good character. And one i will enjoy watching. Finding out that Sauron GOT INTO A BAR FIGHT, and tried to ROB A CREST - (to say nothing about saving Galadriel last week) - its the pits if its true
• They need to fix Galadriel - fast. She needs to come out of this season, resembling more the Character we know and love. This constant bickering, arguing, and insulting those around her is insane. I cannot understand the direction. Taking Galadriel and putting her in bod armor, is annoying. But rewriting her character into an angry, insulting arrogant asshole - entirely unnecessary - it is beneath her as a character. She is better than this, or at least she should be
• Improve the pacing in general.

Anyway, happy to discuss, and looking forward to seeing what we reckon :)

id be entirely ok with Halbrand being a wraith - and i could see his character accepting one of the nine rings - absolutely - i am hoping that is what they do with him.

I just dont think we can count on it. One of the big criticisms of this show, is that the writers are overtly giving us hints in many different directions. I dont have a gripe with foreshadowing - that can be interesting and enjoyable if done properly. But the writers of this show have actually set out to confuse people - its not a mystery, its deliberate, overt misdirection.

• Halbrand - First Line 'Looks can be deceiving' - HUM,, maybe -
• Saves Galdriel - Ok he is a good one -
• has a keen interest in the forge, claiming he can create things like nothing you have seen before - OOOOH MAYBE - Annatar??
• If the Smith helps him, he 'wont forget it' - ANNATAR THE LORD OF GIFTS
• Looks malevolent as he is mocked - Yep its Annatar, its Sauron
• Buys the entire table rounds of drinks and celebrates - eh.. what? no.. guess he is just a man
• Tries to steal a badge, and gets into a bar fight - OK Not Sauron - beneath him, and pathetic for a demigod
• He is a King who's ancestors fought for Morgoth - ok i dont know WTF is going on -
• and since when are kings interested in metallurgy?

We are only 3 eps in and its so obvious that half of what we are being shown is misdirection - Its not good story telling, to say nothing of it being Tolkien.

That said, my point stands, if this is Sauron - Il be quitting the show tbh

Really enjoying this so far. Looks so beautiful and get the sense that multiple different character arcs will play out and combine over time. Wish there was more like this on tv.

Being the Witchking would be decent IMHO - I would genuinely accept that, and i think it would fit

Being Sauron would ruin it for me - for all the reasons specifically mentioned - Having Galadriel Dead to rights in ep 2 - alone, at sea - and not simply let her die - no he RESCUES her - madness

Its madness

This is being used as the excuse for not allowing you review the show on IMDB and AMAZON btw - Its a great show, which racists hate - therefore no one is permitted to give it a lower than 6 score -

A few points. I find it baffling that many extreme left wing (arguably SJW types) are defending a show - made by one of the Largest most capitalistic companies in the world. That treats its employees like serfs. But this issue is corrected perfectly by the narrative. Said commentators are not 'supporting global corporation' - they are fighting racism

I know too, that despite what anyone suggests - The world of Middle Earth (having been written by a Catholic Englishman in the early mid 20th century) - it is predominantly white - the elves especially are white, which is explained time and again - born in star light, children of Valar etc etc etc -

But i dont care about the ethnicities of the actors and actresses - honestly it doesnt matter to me at least. If it were a fantastic show, where the vast majority of characters were portrayed by people of color, i would be here -talking about how fantastic it is!!!!!!!! - but the spin invariably means i need to state the following:

• I am not a racist. I dont CARE about the ethnicity of the actors - despite the Tolkien lore, i am happy to accept the cast as they are. I just want a GOOD SOLID SHOW

This is a spin, that is what we are witnessing. If a show is being attacked for being poorly written, or not true to canon, or lousily put together, - the studio will invariably attack the critical fans - in order to detract criticism. The fact that some ACTUAL RACISTS will invariably attack the show - allows producers to smear large portions of fandom, and claim white toxicity and racism as reason for the shows poor reception. We have seen this phenomena time and time again. Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, Cowboy Bebop, Marvel MCU, etc etc -

• Lousily written stories with no appreciation or respect for the franchises
• horrendous decisions made behind closed doors RE where the story should go, and what its 'message' needs to be
• Decisions to change canon or lore, portrayed as the writer, IMPROVING on the original, and 'bringing modern sensibilities' to a franchise
• followed by countless articles, and press releases talking about a 'backlash by toxic fans'
• While professional critics swarm all over the production, talking about how wonderful it is

Its horrendous - if anything, its damaging to an already floundering show

im happy to debate this with any, and all. We can do so on a separate thread if needs be. And i am genuinely open to your POV. All i ask is that you not smear me personally, and make any claims about my character. I am not a perfect human being, i know that. But i am not a racist, or a misogynist, etc etc etc -