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Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,051 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The hardcore "Woke" "lefties" of today are all cheerleaders for huge corporations, that's what left wing ideology is nowadays, anyone who is critical of the likes of Amazon must be "insert 'ism or phobia here".

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    The Numenoreans are supposed to 7ft tall on average. Elendil was closer to 8ft tall. These lads are aren’t even 6ft. They should look extraordinary beside Halbrad, but most are shorter than him. Why make such a basic change?


    Also, Elendil is the queens cousin. Not some common lad.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I don’t mind the elf/orc storyline. It’s actually interesting. Just leave the actual lore as it should be and it would be ok.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Whatever about a separate thread for bookreaders can we have a third thread for all the non episode related discussions.

    No more of this , if you hate the show you're a racist or if you love the show your an amazon schill. It's tiresome as f**k.

    Being an absolute lore novice I really enjoyed that.... well with the exception of the aforementioned slow mo scene which made Galadriel look positively demonic. But the rest, from the Numonor, to the Orc mine escape, to the harfoot scenes all scratched my LoTR itch quite nicely .

    Post edited by PhiloCypher on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    And the belters in Expanse were meant to be similarly tall due to low gravity. Some things just aren't practical no matter how huge the budget .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


    The Elves and the Orcs, and the discovery of the Map/Symbol, that was the highlight - Numenor was ok. I kinda feel they are depending a lot on wowing fans with the effects. Yes Numenor was cool looking -

    Galadriels open hostility, and lack of diplomacy in Numenor was SO CRINGE -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech



    Nerd of the Rings breakdown is up - it goes through the whole episode, and connects to the lore - also some theories - This is a genuine review and breakdown btw - so might be of interest -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Yeah If only they needed to do it for a couple of other races in the show.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,490 ✭✭✭corkie


    Nerd of the Rings, channel has some good content, here is another video, if your memory of the lore isn't strong.

    The History of Númenor | Tolkien Explained

    Talk of other threads for this, is there already others are is this the only one?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Decent channel alright - his WHAT IF series is decent too. Check out what if Galadriel/Gandalf got the ring - quite decent!

    My only gripe with nerd was his accepting of merchandise from the show - clear conflict there - but he is a good actor - and i cant blame him he collects merch - I like his discussions for sure

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    While I agree she is a bit full on, could it not be in an effort to give her a character arc , rather then her just being this unchanging collection of characteristics, graceful, noble, wise etc. I'm not saying they're nailing the arc , like I said she's far too full on and unlikeable but at least they have some where to go with her. Let's face it the only way is up given where they've started her.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It’s pretty easy to not have someone from Harad be the tallest person in a scene with someone who’s nickname was “the tall” though. I’d be ok if only some of them were tall. But at least make Elendil the tall, tall.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Its very difficult to place when this show is set, during the second age. But by my reckoning, Galadriel is about 3000 years old. As is Elrond (my difficulty in being precise is actually down to the show. In canon, the events the show would cover take place over thousands of years - ) But anyway, 3000 give or take.

    I just find it hard to believe that

    • She is Galadriel (have to say it - cannot really accept it)
    • She will change to any significant degree over 5 years.

    By the time she leaves Middle earth at the end of the trilogy she will be over 8000 years old. This 5 year show represents less than 0.1% of her life. Its basically a couple of weeks at most, for an elf. Again if they had thought this show through, there were ways around this.

    They may well be doing an arc, as you say. Its just out of place. A new Galadriel inspired character would have ticked every box, and allowed them to do what they wanted - anyway

    Yes i would be hoping she ends up in Lorien at the end - but i doubt it -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    Galadriel is at least 1500 years older than Elrond. Probably more.


    There is mention of Ar-Pharzon in episode 3, so this is almost at the end of the second age. But the first episode made it seem closer to the start of the second age. It’s ridiculously confusing, just pick a timeline and stick to it.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Number one , how do you know 5 seasons equals 5 years , number two, even if it does, can you really not imagine someone having a consequential 5 year period in middle-earth or otherwise that changes their perspective on things ?? Galadriel was the same for her entire 5000(?) year life span ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,330 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    She's 8000 years old when we meet her in The Lord of the Rings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


    i stand corrected you're right! - yea she is older than Elrond -

    As to the timeline, they are not concerned with it at all. I did catch Ar-Pharzon being mentioned so - by my reckoning


    • We should have met Annatar
    • The rings should be forged
    • The one ring should be forged
    • The plot should be completely different

    Depending on when this ends, perhaps Sauron should also be in Numenor at this point, twisting the mind of the king - im gonna re-read the appendix of LOTR soon enough - I mean if the show ends at the end of the second age (Last Alliance, Isildur taking the ring) - then Numenor shouldnt be there!!!

    Yea the whole show has an early/mid first age vibe off it - given the elves total ignorance of Sauron, and the lack of rings

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Probably because of Isildur's rough age? Although numenorians technically live far longer - but look i am making an assumption. I just find it hard to believe Galadriel can conceivable change much. But this is not real Tolkien so anything goes really

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,490 ✭✭✭corkie


    The plot will cover events of the Second Age. A preliminary interactive map, featured on the Amazon Prime Video site,[14] pointed towards the show being set in the mid-Second Age, circa SA 1500-1701. However, characters from a much later period in the Second Age, such as Elendil and Isildur will also appear. The two periods will be condensed into a single timeline, to prevent jumps in time.[7] Both periods do not focus on an adventure story, but rather Machiavellian drama.

    Warning that wiki has spoilers for future Premise

    Some interesting reading about cast/directors been changed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Can we agree that a mere archetype wouldn't be terribly interesting dramatically speaking. I mean I loved Cate Blanchetts more zen Galadriel but if I had to put up with 5 seasons of that very measured line delivery, I'd have to tap out. It would be like aural ambien.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Apothic_Red


    Jesus, no fun around here with your knowledge. Huge analysis that goes over my head. As a film only person I might give you pure laymans take.

    Slow, slow, start, will have lost a few in that first episode.

    Saw something on The Journal about the accents but didn't bother me. Lenny Henry looks like he's having a blast.

    Kinda groan every time they go back to the Hobbits, giant guy is the only thing of interest.

    Dwarf mine seemed very posh for dwarfes, was the Dwarf king in the Hobbit ?

    Intro of the Orcs was good, every director nowadays wants to be Speilberg

    Big pickup in Ep3, why did Gladriel become so cocky with the queen ?

    Her raft buddy then turns into the Hulk when mad, not really explained besides inheritance.

    why so little blood when first elf is killed in the camp, barely looked like he had a shaving cut

    Also, if you were an immortal elf why would you care about urgent escape

    The warg? dog thing, looked female & very little blood.

    So, we dont know who the disposed king is or the head orc, sure all will be revealed.

    Why are orcs now vampires & afraid of the sun

    Anyway, just nitpicking



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,598 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    One point - this is an age before LOTR so it is not 'now' in film timelines. This is the before time.

    It was a big development in LOTR that Uruk orcs were not as affected by sunlight.

    https://gamerant.com/lotr-uruk-hai-orcs-differences-explained/

    In LOTR book it is mentioned that orcs hated the sunlight and it seemed to weaken them. But more like Dracula in the Stoker novel as a weakening / sapping than film versions where it burned.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,594 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I liked that episode.

    The Harfoot stuff is interesting me the least thus far, so hopefully that storyline picks up a bit soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Yeh the Harfoot accents dont bother me either, where we differ is I'm really enjoying the Harfoot sections, Nori and her friend have a great comic chemistry. Those sections serve the same purpose the Hobbit/shire sections in Lotr do , they act as a tonic from all the self seriousness and dark prophecies being fulfilled everywhere else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,231 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Such disingenous rubbish from amazon.


    This is not the reason it's getting bad reviews.

    I think what happened was they saw the script, they knew it was sh1t and so decided to deflect from it being sh1t by using the old "racism" card.

    This is why they promoted Disa so much for marketing (so far she's been in it for about 5 mins out of 3+ hours) - so they could point to racism for any criticism .. pathetic.


    And ironically - so far she's been one of the best characters :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,231 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    As for the episode , some good parts and visuals looked good - I did like Numenor, and the elf/orc stuff is decent - Warg looked ok too.

    Problem is the god awful dialog - "The sea is always right - THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT"

    And the "Hobbits" praying, jesus it was awful cringe.

    Such a shame they couldn't hire decent writers with good CV's for this show, it is a missed opportunity.


    Believe it or not , I actually want this show to be good .



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


     "The sea is always right - THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT"

    But we must never forget also that a stone, sinks. Into the sea (which is always right) - because it looks down (into the sea which is always right) - where as a boat, looks up (away from the sea, therefore, a boat is wrong to do so...)?

    I mean im obviously joking, yet. I think this highlights the lousy dialogue of the show in general. The writers perhaps admire Tolkien, but when they try and imitate him - it is so far off the mark as to become embarrassing.

    Tolkiens writings were beautiful and poetic - When these writers try and imitate him, they come across as parody.

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    I thought the harfoot remembrance scene was pretty sweet tbh. They're pretty much nailing the Hobbit/shire vibe for me . Did you find the Hobbits scenes equally cringe in Lotr , I remember Sam wise having some equally sentimental scenes . Are you perhaps letting your dislike for the entire enterprise sour even the most inoffensive moments for you ?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,483 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Solid third episode.

    While there’s no doubt this series has taken generous ‘inspiration’ from the Jackson version of Middle Earth, I do like how it has so far been consistently expanding on the world. It’d have been easy to just indulge in the ol’ ‘’memberberries’ and play the hits. But they’re building on the world - while it’s still familiar, it’s also new. Even the Harfoots - so obviously designed and centred to emulate hobbits - have their own very different culture and way-of-life that’s being nicely realised in both story and design terms.

    Still looks the part, although there’s no doubt the seams are there. The CG in the boat sequence, for example, felt flat despite all the cinematic movement of the camera. It’s still a few steps above the likes of House of the Dragon in the technical sense, but does have the same often excessively CG sheen of a lot of modern big budget film. Thankfully it is nicely balanced with some more practical filmmaking too, and things like the epic landscape shots integrate CG in a way that does make the world seem bigger and more epic than it otherwise would.

    I’m curious how the various plots now being explored will ultimately converge… or whether they will at all. While there is a broad overarching story, I’m wondering whether this’ll be a season-long case of slowly bringing some of the principle players together, or whether we can expect the stories and characters to remain largely separate from each other. Both approaches come with benefits and drawbacks, so interested to see where they settle. While I think the show’s now done a good job setting up each individual stories (although it took three episodes to get there with the orcs / Arondir plot) there’s still plenty of big picture stuff that remains elusive for now. Like other multi-thread TV shows it’s already finding itself having to leave some pivotal characters and plotlines aside for entire episodes.

    It’s still a long way away from being upper-tier television, but on the basis of the most recent episodes of each I’m enjoying this more than I am HotD (which suffers a lot more from struggling to meaningfully expand on what we’ve already seen in GoT).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I dislike the harfoots - The song, stating they never leave anyone behind, is kinda undermined by their subsequent reading of a list of harfoots, who were explicitly left behind .

    I know i appear extremely negative - and yes probably so. But here are the things i LIKE about the show, just for context -

    • The elvish Occupation of Morder, which was obviously untainted by evil, at least until episode 3. The coming of the Orcs and their tunneling - im hoping we properly end season one with Mordor turning towards what it will become.
    • The mark being a map - it was hinted at, and there was speculation. But i enjoyed how the revelation cut back to Mordor itself
    • Numenor is decent, and i find myself hoping we remain there for a time. (im interested in the lore, which depending on timeline, suggests that Numinor is rather corrupted at this time)


    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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