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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes,

    Nothing that MF says can be relied upon. She probably is telling the truth about some things ....but which?

    Certainly any assertion based on her statements - for or against the Baily theory - fall at the first hurdle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The fact that Sophie was home alone at her cottage was always the reason, why I strongly believe that the killing was planned, not unplanned.

    • The killer came to Sophie's cottage for a specific reason. ( divorce, drugs, sexual )
    • The intention of the trip was to stop Sophie from doing something, convince her from doing something or even prevent ( by killing her ) from doing something.
    • He knew she was staying at her cottage, that she was alone, he wanted to be alone with her as not to have any witnesses.
    • The remote location gave the killer an advantage, not being seen, early darkness and late mornings in this part of Ireland in December worked in his advantage.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "This is well known but you choose to ignore it"

    I don`t ignore it. I accept that the gardaí stepped over the line in this investigation. But as far as I am concerned they did it because they believed Bailey was the killer. It wasn`t a big conspiracy to hang an innocent man.

    "Why on earth would we believe the original statement. Doesn`t add up."

    It`s the only thing she said that does add up and is corroborated by other evidence.

    "It is a bit convenient this sighting by Ceri Williams"

    Saying that makes you the classic conspiracy theorist and goes hand in hand with something else you said several pages back...i.e..going for the obvious suspect leads to miscarriages of justice. If Williams was part of a big fit up she wouldn`t have said "they weren`t together". She would have put them together. Your logic is fundamentally skewed by your hatred of the gardaí.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "the Mirror can reveal today"

    Is this today today or is it today 25 years ago. A lot of bullshit was published back then. Bailey was the source of much of the French stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Please provide the exact quotes form Ceri Williams about him 'loitering' in dark clothing.

    Loitering across the street in dark clothing? Remind us, what time of day was it? Daylight or not? So what relevance does 'dark clothing' have?

    Because it reads like a piece of bad fiction.

    Would that be the same Ceri Williams who claims that Bailey appeared outside her remote home one night after the murder, wailing her name?

    It was the main street of the town. He'd been on it countless times.

    He'd been into Marie Farrell's shop.

    All the more remarkable then Marie Farrell didn't know who he was, and couldn't describe him accurately despite allegedly seeing him standing around in the afternoon, yet could recognise him before sunrise or in the dark from a moving car. Yeah it isn't rocket science. Its a pack of lies. If you believe this you'll believe anything.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    You're sounding increasingly desperate Tibruit.

    Its common knowledge that Sophie was unfaithful to Daniel. She even brought Bruno to Dreenane.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Yah but you see, the gards dont get to make that decision, on who they think is guilty or not and then engage in corrupt practices because they dont have any hard evidence. Its for the DPP & the judicial system to come to that conclusion which the former did & heavily criticized the manner of the investigation. Thank god there was people like him around back then because our prisons would be full of people who're innocent but happened to get on the wrong side of the gards.

    No, it doesnt make sense when you look at it objectively. She has since retracted it, doesnt fear Bailey one bit but fears the people who pressured her into making it understandably. All in all, its not worth the paper its written on.

    Nah but you see, if she said that, she could end up hanging herself if someone else contradicted this sighting, a bit like why Alfie Lyons said he was only 90% sure he introduced he introduced Bailey to STDP. Strange no one seems to be sure if they ever actually saw Bailey in the company of STDP.

    And yes, I do have an issue with corrupt gards setting potentially innocent people up for murder, doesnt make me a conspiracy theorist or have a blind hatred for the gards. Its an extremely serious matter which went unpunished & if you ever found yourself in a similar position, I hope you remember this thread. Im sure theres a few good ones out there but I dont think that you can ignore some of the toxic elements that make up that organisation.

    Post edited by jimwallace197 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I know all about Bruno and you haven`t answered my question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Please provide the exact quotes...."

    I did about a page back. He was clearly wearing his long black coat on the day in question.

    "it reads like a piece of bad fiction."

    The truth does most of the time.

    "wailing her name?"

    Do you think he is incapable of that? I don`t.

    "All the more remarkable then Marie Farrell didn`t know who he was."

    He told WCP that he didn`t know who she was either. So there you go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Tibruit another question for you on the Airhill Rd sighting which you seem to think is crucial evidence in this murder.

    • Where was Marie Farrell travelling to at 7.30 on a Sunday morning. Marie sure did get about for a mother of 5 kids - was she ever at home! It seems pretty early to be out and about on a Sunday morning. Back in those days shops only opened on a Sunday afternoon for Christmas shopping - so where was she off to.
    • It would have been dark at that time of the morning in December. How could she have recognised anyone in the dark let alone Bailey?
    • Can we even believe she was out and about on the Sunday morning. She has lied about everything else - why do you believe her on this?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    It is well known that she operated a stall in Cork. That`s where she was going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Its first I heard she had a stall aswell. So she was in Cork all day and then out with her lover that night until the wee small hours. Talk about burning the candle at both ends!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Ah he was only an old friend and it was just an innocent chat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    An old boyfriend in the middle of the night while she was married according to her. Only a complete naive fool would believe its an old friend. If whats shes saying is true, I think we can all hazard a guess of what she was up to & what her intentions were



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    The article is dated 1997. And there are many more of the kind

    But the question is, as you know, an irrelevance.

    Daniel and Sophie's marriage was on the rocks. As I have illustrated, it was and is public knowledge.

    QED



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    She was probably hugging her hot water bottle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    It may have been on the rocks three years earlier. I listened to West Cork Podcast again recently and they said she had organised a Christmas present for Daniel and they had arranged a trip to Africa together in the new year. It doesn`t sound like a divorce was imminent. Bailey had written at the time that she had an array of lovers coming and going but that wasn`t true. There was only Bruno. One of the men that came with her at on point was her brother and Daniel had been over with her too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Nevertheless, Daniel seems to be the only player in this drama that had a motive. That's my point.

    And statistically, the husband is the most likely perpetrator in cases of this kind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Daniel got his young lover pregnant ( which he had at the time of Sophie's death) 6 months after Sophie's death. Married her the following year. Of course their marriage was on the rocks. He was hardly the grieving husband. Sophie's death made life alot easier for Daniel. No messy divorce or financial loss.

    Post edited by Deeec on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Provide the original source for your claim of 'loitering'.

    Don't point me towards one of your own posts.

    Look how you have already changed your tune, from the suspicious sounding 'dark clothing' to - he was wearing the same long black coat he always wore. So they said they saw him wearing the same coat he was known to wear.

    My quote is from the West Cork Podcast.

    Williams claims that Bailey appeared outside her remote home one night after the murder, wailing her name.

    Ceri Williams testified that she once saw Mr Bailey howling at the moon near her house and so slept with an iron bar by her bed.

    Credible witness? I don't think so.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    So now you're saying you doubt her first statement altogether, that she wasnt even out that night despite previously using it to make an argument that Bailey is guilty. Any chance you might be consistent in what you say



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I agree - I dont believe it was an old friend. If she was out with any other man, he was local and shes covering for him.

    I truly believe though she was at home tucked up in bed. How a mother of 5 young kids could be out and about so much around christmas is beyond me. If what she says is true she was away from her house and kids all day that Sunday and worked also on the Saturday - it just doesnt sound plausible.

    Also if she was out with another man how did hot-headed Chris stay married to her given she made such a public fool out of him. He had to be gaining out of this too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    I don't know if the dark net existed back then, nor do I think that Daniel would have used something similar in order to make contact with a contract killer. He would never have known what kind of "service" he would have gotten, and it could easily have been the police waiting at the other end. No, he would have to have been sure, and the next girl was already waiting to be wed....

    What I would think to be more plausible, is that Daniel talked to a good friend of his, who may have known somebody else who would give the orders and get the payment. Through such a chain the Guards would not have been smart enough to make the connection, plus it would have been hard to prove. Cash given verbal orders taken, job done. Killer arrives travels to Ireland via Belgium takes a flight to London, train to Holyhead, ferry to Dublin, rental car in either Dublin or Cork. Back then, I don't recall passport control on the ferry between Holyhead and Dublin. Guards checking the flights between Paris and Cork would never ever make the connection.

    Husband speaking to wife on the cellphone, then calls friend, who calls friend, who calls killer relays information, wife alone at home. Go for it, have her taken care of....

    The other thought I would have had was Leo Bolger. Suppose Sophie knew or seen something, and threatened to do something and Leo already had one brush with the law before. He'd hardly want to go to jail and Sophie could have easily done something to put him there. He would have known that getting of lightly with a suspended sentence won't happen a 2nd time. He could easily have had motive to kill Sophie, even if his "little sideline" in the drug business didn't make him a fortune.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Provide the original source for your claim "loitering"."

    Williams says she bumped into Sophie as she exited Spar and spotted Bailey across the street. I said loitering. It`s Episode 7...12 minutes in.

    "Look how you`ve changed your tune"

    I haven`t. A long black coat is dark clothing every day of the week where I come from. Personally I find "long black coat" more suspicious sounding than "dark clothes".

    I have no problem believing Williams at all. Listen to the podcast. She is very convincing. It`s all very well reading witness statements and concluding they are making things up. That`s one of the places where the DPP fell flat. However when you see them and hear them saying it as they did in the documentaries, podcast and the court rooms, they are utterly believable. Maybe it`s a rural thing, but some people do get nutty with a full moon. A guy I know is well known for howling at it and a friend of mine told me he has seen and heard a neighbour do it a few times. I seem to be undermining some of the rocks you have built your beliefs upon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Changed your tune again.. from spotted Bailey across the street to 'loitering'. By your own admission, this is your own invention

    Earlier I wrote:

    Because it reads like a piece of bad fiction.

    And I was right.

    You are making stuff up.

    Your posts have zero credibility, as you weave your own fabricated embellishments around original sources.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Right suppose Marie is right and she was out with another man that night. I was just pondering why Marie Farrells husband would be ok with this. Also if the man she was out with was not from the area as she says - why didnt she go to his hotel room. Right stick with me on this and read between what I am trying to say:

    What if Marie was out that night in a working capacity. What if she was known to provide certain ummm services to men for money. We know Chris and herself were tight for money - she could have been doing this with Chris's backing. It would explain why she was in a remote secluded location, it would explain her reluctance to name the man ( or maybe she didnt know his name), it could explain gardai's failure to find the man. Its possible the gardai are covering this up as a member of the force used her services and they had turned a blind eye to her in the past.

    It would also make sense why gardai allegedly made sexual advances towards Marie if true. I found that very odd ( actually didnt believe her on this) that members of the gardai would do this but if she had a reputation it could make sense.

    Anyway I still believe the most likely story was she was at home in bed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    When the basis of your position is so fundamentally weak, you have to come up with something.

    I admire his persistence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    It is easy be persistant. There`s just so much evidence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I doubt she was on the game.

    To be fair both her and Chris were hard workers.



This discussion has been closed.
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