How do bad tradespeople stay in business?

For me, I have always asked the same question of tradesmen in small towns/villages, where everyone knows everyone, and a "bad job" would be heard about by everyone. So I assume tradesmen in such an environment have to (at the very least) do an "ok" job (but I hear stories!)

But in cities, and especially Dublin, cowboys rule supreme. Of all the tradesmen I've had over the years, the majority have done a poor service, and some have been an absolute disgrace. But I have no ability to "spread the word". Thus, while they will obviously get no repeat business from me, they can simply move from customer to customer, with none of their bad history every following them. There is, ultimately, an infinite supply of new customers.

What is ultimately needed is a (small) national agency. This agency would maintain a registry, where all tradesmen are registered (and licensed) and have proof of insurance etc. They would also maintain a relatively simple website where:

• Customers can post their request for jobs and tradesmen respond/quote.
• Customers can see the tradesmen's ratings, along with their entire history of job (every single job they have done, along with reviews from corresponding customers). Likewise, the Tradesmen can see the Customer history and what reviews they have left for tradesmen in the past.
• Once a Customer agrees to go with a particular Tradesman, full details of the job (including photos etc), dates and estimates for materials and labour etc are documented on the website. Likewise, if any aspect of the job is being "subcontracted", that particular tradesman's profile is also assigned to the job and the Customer agrees. The job is now "insured" by the agency (i.e. they will be the ones to intervene and resolve if there are any issues).
• Customers pay, in advance, the quoted amount, with any outstanding balance/refund settled after the job.
  • This protects tradesmen against fraudulent customers who have them do a job and then refuse to pay/bouncing cheques etc.
• This payment is broken into "cost of materials" while is transferred to the tradesman straight away, while the "cost of labour" portion is held in escrow by the agency until 28 days after the job has been marked as complete, before being transferred to the tradesmen.
  • This protects the customer as the tradesman is not paid until 28 days after the customer is satisfied (or not at all if the job was done poorly). And, while the tradesman gets the fund for materials straight away, they must upload receipts/invoices etc for those materials prior to marking the job as complete on their end.
• Once the tradesman believes everything has been completed, they mark the job as "complete" and updates the final amount (which maybe more or less than the estimate/quote, and if so, details as to why it was different), along with receipts/invoices for materials (ensuring they didn't just re-use second hand/defective/cheap materials).
• The Customer is then given 28 days to confirm that they are happy (default) or not. During this time, any snags etc should be addressed by the tradesman, with a "Hold/Dispute" being registered if they are still not happy after 28 days.
• If happy, Customer leaves a review for the tradesmen, including photos where appropriate, rating them (out of 5) on time-keeping, professionalism and quality of work (giving an average 5 star rating for the overall experience).
• Just like with eBay or many other online retailers, the "tradesman's rating" is an average rating of all the jobs they have done
• If unhappy, Customer can escalate after 28 days (or more urgently in specific cases, such as safety issues with Gas/Electric (or there is a complete breakdown in communication/relationship between parties). This involves the Customer paying a small amount (say €100?) to be held in escrow for an inspectors review. An "Inspector" (a second tradesman specifically recognised by the agency for their reputation/quality) reviews the job. Where the Inspector finds that the customer is unreasonable, then the job is marked as complete and the €100 is paid to the inspector. Where the Inspector finds in favour of the customer, the tradesman must A) immediately resolve in a time deemed appropriate to the Inspector and B), the tradesman must pay the €100 to the inspector (and the customer is refunded their €100). If the tradesman does not resolve according to the inspector's (short) timeline and (high) quality, the agency keeps the money held in escrow for labour and gives the job to a separate tradesman which the agency pays for (even if it involves new material and/or tearing everything down and starting over etc).
• Where a tradesman's rating falls below a certain threshold, or where an inspector reports on a particular job where the tradesman was woefully unskilled/unprofessional etc, the tradesman is suspended for a period of time and must pass certification etc before being relicensed.
• Likewise, problematic customers (e.g. where they have made a number of disputes that the Inspector ruled against them) are also flagged, so tradesmen know to avoid.
• For new tradesmen registering with the agency, just like it is with apprenticeship, their profiles would be linked to a corresponding mentor/experienced tradesman who would oversee their work. Thus they could still compete for work while building up their initial reputation.
• Advertising etc makes it clear to all about the advantages to both customer and tradesmen of going through the agency. For tradesmen, yes it will mean that every job has now very clearly recorded financials, so they will have to pay the correct amount of tax! But, if they are actually good at their job, this will ensure a constant stream of good customers (and potentially higher income as their reputation grows). For customers, they get to truly see the professionalism of tradesmen prior to choosing (and can choose a cheaper 4.2 star plumber over the more expensive 4.9 star plumber if they so wish, or vice versa), along with the guarantee that the job will be done do a very high standard, within reasonable timelines, and with no hidden/unfair additional costs. Any for any customer going outside this agency to look for a tradesman, it is clear that, while it may be cheaper (as the tradesman will do cash-in hand etc) you will be getting a cowboy, and absolutely no insurance/guarantee/redress.

some of that is good but the majority would never work or would drive prices up by 50 % or more with all the paperwork and profit someone else is making

Simply most trades are Ltd companies, bad trades take advantage by closing up every few years rereg as a new company, wash and repeat

From my own experience as a self employed tradesman and in a partnership, the biggest difficulty I encountered regularly was individuals wanting the best job done at the cheapest price. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. My price was based on 20 plus years experience, insurance, etc.

I generally gave a quote that was non negotiable, you can provide the materials yourself or I'll source them from wholesalers.

Time and time I heard the shite " my nephew could do it at a cheaper price or my neighbour said he'd beat your price " , that's fine by me , get them to do it.

On a small job , my routine was a third of the quote up front , a third half way through and the final third when the job was completed and everyone was happy.

The inference being pay more and get a better job? Not for me.

In fact I've got foreign lads to do much better work for cheaper.

https://www.bbb.org/ should expand to Ireland? :)

People will pay for quality.

if a tradesman/tradesmen say they’ll be here at 10am on Monday I expect them to arrive at 10am

they should do the job as agreed, with quality materials, quality workmanship and quality service…

There is a big shortage of tradespeople….

Asking to see there qualifications might help, my husband is a qualified cabinet maker and he received a gold card on completion of his trade, his work is excellent so i can only assume anyone who has a gold card must be good at their work, most people don't ask to see trade details of the actual people carrying out the work, most of them not even qualified, now im sure there are excellent trades people that have not gone through college but your really only given them the benefit of the doubt and will only know how good bad they are when the job is done...

You just need to walk into a new development to see how bad trades people have gotten in all trades.

Where's the part about the tradesman being a bollix or brilliant?

I can give you a tip about maintaining batteries for drills , free of charge.

Such an Irish mentality, I don't think I'm getting paid enough so do a shite job. Just don't take the job if you're not gonna do it right. No guns to anyones head.

So one phone call to Irish business had you sorted and it took 2 or 3 goes for the foreign business to get you sorted yet paddy is the cowboy?

Maybe the Irish business were more clued in with product and knew what you needed.

Sounds like the foreign business was drop shipping it and didn't have a clue about the product and we're just passing numbers to supplier.

Doesn't really sound like you support Irish business at all.

Agree with this. Its very hard to get quality finish in Ireland. They are all speed jobs now.

Had a load of jobs to get done as i just moved into an old house.

Will use Eastern Europeans for preference over Irish - for price and finish, if i dont have a recommendation from someone.

All jobs were about a fifth cheaper and am really happy with the results.

Apart from one Irish guy who was just outstanding, sound, great price and excellent work - was recommended to me .

I'll never use a traveler again - the ones I used before wanted to cut corners and I had to listen to their bs while they tried it on.

The biggest risk associated with rechargeable batteries drills is fire from being exposed to a high heat area. The rule of thumb is if you're not using the drill take the battery out.

As for batteries failing , it's cause of the owner not using the drill. People buy drills , use them once or twice a year ,the battery drains and won't hold a significant charge.

Explosion, unlikely, even when left on charge.

Ah get over yourself. You gave the man the make and model of the drill and he had the battery for it. Likely a genuine one that would have come from factory.

The foreign guy had to do all the extra checks as he was likely selling you a spurious battery.

I really think you are misjudging this one.

Foreign guy was cheaper cause he probably sold you the spurious part.

Of course you will come back now to say it's a Bosch part you got.

Just had a gardening redesign at home. Overall job is excellent, very stylish, tidy and vibrant looking…lads worked clean.

Two lads had to work late the last evening having been four there all week… when the job was finished they were short one paving brick… so lad disappears and comes back with the wrong brick… animated conversation between them… then the lad try’s to convince us it’s the same brick, then close enough, then finally agrees, it’s the wrong brick…. 😱😅

nobody would have given a fûck if they just said…. You know we’ll be back Monday, with the correct brick but with craic like that you become sort of hesitant to recommend them, no matter how perfect the job was…

When I glanced at this thread title I thought it read "How do bad transpeople stay in business"??😒

Some people are happy to install new taps, others are not. But very few are capable (or have the time) to install a whole new kitchen/bathroom etc. Nor would most people trust themselves (from a safety perspective, either to their person or to their property) to go messing with gas/electricity/plumbing etc.

But are you seriously suggesting we just get rid of all tradesmen and have everybody DIY?

Also, what hassle are you trying to "save"?

This is not difficult information to ascertain. Most chargers charge multiple variations of batteries of different manufacturers. They’re not going to manufacture different chargers for every single battery.