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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    She probably wasn't. I'm just trying to come up with reasons why her marriage survived which baffles me considering how publicly this was discussed. Also it puzzles me why she was never charged for her lies - why did the Gardai protect her by not making her name the man ( when they believe he existed). Her part in all of this is baffling. And she's still blathering away to any media who approaches her!



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I agree that the entire circus that is Marie Farrell's role in this affair is bizarre.

    I do suspect her of inappropriate behaviour with one or more Gardai but I don't believe that a Garda was involved in the murder....apart from hearsay, there is no evidence to support that particular theory.

    But there are several known issues that suggest an improper relationship between MF and the Gardai.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    You can spin it any way you want, but it doesn`t take away from the simple reality that a witness is prepared to say that when Sophie exited Spar, Bailey was on the other side of the street. It has consequences for what Marie said in her first statement and it reconciles with the specifics of the confession that Bailey made to Bill Fuller.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "it puzzles me why she was never charged for her lies"

    You would have to work out what the lies were first.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    No you've been caught out spinning it the way you want. You invented this 'loitering'. With every post you change your tune when challenged and backtrack and then shift the goalposts to nonsense confessions.

    You invented a fabricated claim about Bailey 'loitering'. I am not spinning. The proof is on the thread of what you made up.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Ah no....it`s been a tough old day for you. A witness corroborates Marie`s first statement and her later identification of Bailey, that confession to Fuller has a bit more traction and that one rock you have long counted on is further undermined as WCP says Bailey didn`t know Marie. No wonder you`re working hard to distract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Quote about those who wear black.

    'Black is modest and arrogant at the same time. Black is lazy and easy - but mysterious. But above all black says this: "I don’t bother you - don’t bother me"

    Would it fit any suspects?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You were utterly unable to corroborate your statement of 'loitering'.

    Pretty obvious who is trying to distract from that.

    If Bailey has confessed to the crime, why does it matter who saw whom where in the days before the murder.

    Except there is no such confession, just sarcastic remarks from Bailey - which is why you have to resort to inventing fabrications about Bailey 'loitering'.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I dont think Ceri Williams is a reliable witness. She was once a partner of Pete Bielieki who came to the rescue of Jules after one of her beatings. Both Ceri and Pete were friends of Bailey but of course they fell out with him after the beating ( and rightly so). So she had no liking for Bailey at all so it is possible she may have told a few lies too.

    After Pete Bielieki she moved in with Tom Quinn - a painter who painted Sophies house. His fingerprints were taken at the time of the murder - not sure it was just to have his prints or if he was a suspect. It is possible again that she may have had reason to point the gardai towards Bailey. I have no idea what man she was with at the time of the murder though.

    Thats the thing about the people of West Cork Bailey was involved with - they are all strange characters that were involved workwise, friendship, relationship wise etc. They seem to have all fallen out at some stage and made enemies of each other. It is safe to say Bailey was an enemy of Ceri's.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Sweet suffering Jaysis...!!!

    The babe Farrelll working the beat....???

    Christ almighty...... There'd be less shame in calling into the Newsagents after morning Mass and purchasing a tittie mag in front of all the neighbours...

    What depraved, degenerate, social misfit, would lower themselves to hire her for a half hour....??

    Mr Tayto has a better figure....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    😂🤣 Well all the men of West Cork wanted her. Even the Gardai found her hard to resist if we are to believe Marie.🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I don't think any killer wanted to make a fashion statement.

    I'd say the killer wanted to blend in, wanted not to be remembered.

    People tend to remember more those who don't blend in, look out of ordinary, not from here.

    I don't think any killer would have loitered in dark alleys with a black coat. It's something a local would remember, in a neighbourhood, where people tend to know each other. The killer would also not have loitered, but rather checked out Sophie's neighbourhood around the house. He would hardly have followed Sophie to Marie's shop and kill her there or in an alley behind the shop, too many possible witnesses, chances of being seen, etc...

    The killer would have looked as local and as Irish as possible, and would have also driven a small and inconspicuous car to blend in. Dublin or Cork license plates, and if the accent didn't fit, explained it away with being a relative from overseas, visiting family over Christmas. Nobody would have noticed anything about that as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Back in the 60's, half of Ireland emigrated either to the States, or to England.

    I would suggest that most Irish people at this stage have some English relatives... By proxy of the great exodos??

    The few that don't have English Family connections, would surely have English friends in their social circles?

    The Irish & English are one of the same... Yeah, we'll beat the 800 years of oppression drum, but in fairness, most of our modern day cousins haven't a clue about Anglo / Irish history... (I can personally vouch for this... Not a clue !!!)

    So, seeing Ian Bailey around town back in the 90's would be nothing out of the ordinary..

    But would a potential French assassin have the same inconspicuous cover around town?

    I would suggest not.

    I live and work in two of Irelands biggest Cities... An Iranian National would register on my radar, as would an Italian, or Spanish national... Not because they are alien, but because they are not the 'usual'.

    I would consider, English, Polish and Nigerian nationals as 'nothing of interest' around the City(s) I frequent... Simply because they are two a penny so to speak (plenty of them around)

    But a Frenchman would certainly come to my attention.

    Back in 1996 - A Frenchman showing up in a rural town would be hard to miss, no matter how hard he tried to keep under the radar, and would surely be spotted walking up and down the main street...??

    Nah.. I don't but the French hitman theory... The same as I don't buy a local resident didn't recognise Ian Bailey strutting around town... You'd have heard him before you seen him!

    I would nearly rule the two of them out based soley on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The memorial concert for Sophie is on in Schull in a couple of weeks.

    “Accordinging to Bill Hogan, one of the organising committee,

    "It is a space for healing. It (her murder) is like an open wound, Mr Hogan said.””

    Maybe, just maybe, someone with a conscience will come forward. I believe the answer lies in the locality, within a couple of miles of Dreenane and someone local knows what happened that night/morning.

    I wonder, If a DNA sample was taken from everyone at the concert would they find a match or a familial match?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    If it was any other part of the country I would agree with you. But we are talking about West cork where a large part of the population was originally from other countries. I don't think a French man in West cork would have been seen as unusual at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername



    There was plenty French people around West Cork then. Wasn’t it called Little Riviera or The Cork Riviera or something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    Nigerians or any black would have stood out at that time, but I'd say, Spanish, French and Italian was not uncommon, at least not in Dublin.

    If Daniel hired a hitman he would not just have asked a close friend. It would have been asking a friend, who knew a friend, who knew somebody who had an idea who could potentially carry out the job. No phone call would ever have been between Daniel and the killer, no e-mail, nothing.

    Daniel just supplying the address, any other particulars about the house and the area, possibly the time. Daniel could even have supplied the information that the area by the gate and the pump station was out of clear sight of Alfie and Shirley and it would be the spot where the killer would least likely have had witnesses. The cover of darkness did the rest. A phone call to a friend, after having spoken to Sophie that evening to confirm she was home....

    It's entirely possible that any hitman ordered by whatever chain of connection by Daniel would also not even have been French at all. Could have been English, maybe even an American living in Ireland somewhere.

    The biggest challenge for the killer would have been an inconspicuous car which blends in, and a spare set of clothes, changing somewhere after the job was done, disposing of them, somewhere over the cliffs.

    Also, it was Christmas, people visiting relatives wasn't out of the ordinary, anywhere in Ireland.

    One thing would be certain: Daniel had by far the biggest financial motive for killing Sophie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭pauly58


    Dutch, German & English certainly, I don't remember many French.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Sometimes it's the simplest and most obvious answer;

    Maybe someone local had a fight with Sophie, for whatever reason, killed her, then went home and cleaned up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I dont think I would be able to distinguish if it was a dutch, german, english or a french person by just looking at them. Now I probably would recognise them as a stranger to the area. I dont know how Marie could determine that the man was french by looking at him from across the road. It's a bit laughable really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭flanna01


    Respectfully disagree here..

    I can recognise a Ukranian from 30 meters away walking along the street.

    I can usually determine a person of Polish background, though not as accurately as I could tell a Nigerian from a Pakistan.

    I can tell an older generation Irish person from an older generation English person, but not notice the difference with the younger group (if neither speak and give away their accents)

    Italians are different, as are the Spanish, it would be difficult to confuse the two.

    I would be fairly confident I could tell a Frenchman if I seen one, or at least recognise he was an unusual person to be in this neck of the woods so to speak..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's not impossible, but I don't think this is how it happened. Also there would have to have been the motive of the fight as well. The killing was either massive rage, or a killing to send a message, on how gruesome it would have been.

    As to the hitman, if it was a clean shot, with a silencer, everybody would have known that that's the profile of a professional. The finger would automatically have pointed at Daniel, also the matter of financial motive would have been more on the center stage, irrespective if it can be proven or not, but using a brick and a cavity block keeps everybody guessing.

    It's also possible that none of Daniel's friends would have known a real professional hitman, just some desperate guy who'd be willing to do it for a bit of money by whatever means.

    I'd suggest a real professional would have picked Sophie's lock, have worn gloves all the way, entered here house, shot her with a silencer possibly in her sleep, made a getaway still during the night. But again, this sort of job would automatically have meant, that somebody paid to have her killed, and only those with money and who afford top quality work do pay.....

    How many people did Sophie actually meet during her visit? The Ungerers, Hellens, possibly Alfie and Shirley? The odd publican? Somebody doing repairs at her house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I'd say a professional hitman would have made it look like an accident and made sure the body wouldn't be found for a few days at least.

    Whoever did it was trying to get her to do something or not do something. They brought a wine bottle or maybe were given one but things went downhill quickly. To inflict such violence as using a concrete block must have involved drugs/somone unstable or perhaps the block was used to destroy some detail/evidence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Don't know. I'd suggest that making something look like an accident is difficult, as one simple or very minor mistake will prove the opposite. Putting Sophie into the car and dumping the body over the cliff, also no choice, car would have been full of blood, which would have been an issue, - cleaning, or returning if it was a rental.

    The killer apparently wanted her to be found, if he would have just thrown the body over the hedge of brambles or briars, it could easily have been that it would have taken 12 to 24 hours for her to be even discovered.

    The bottle of wine would be a constant mystery. The killer with intention to kill or to prevent Sophie from doing something or convincing her from not doing something would hardly have needed a bottle of wine to achieve that objective, no matter how expensive the bottle was.



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There was a MOUNTAIN of forensic evidence here. This should be an open and shut case if Bailey actually did it. The fact he hasn't been tried in Ireland yet pretty much proves he didn't do it. And also shows what a farce the French legal system is. Guilty if a psychologist and witness statements that have been proven false say so. I am no Bailey lover - he seems an obnoxious character - but there is no way he's guilty. Someone else is being covered for here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That's my point really. The killer didn't have a fixed intention to kill her I'd say. The bottle might have been an inducement to open the door and let them in? A hitman may have smothered her, drowned her or drugged/poisoned her more easliy. It could have looked like an accidental overdose or a slip in the bath? Even hitting her with a blunt object and leaving the body in the field with the horses?



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If Marie Farrell told me water was wet, I'd dip my hand in some to be 100% sure. Proven to be a pathological liar.



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do people really trust anything married people like this say, riding all around them? Lying is second nature to habitual cheaters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Drowning, drugging, getting her drunk on French wine, or poisoning her would have taken to long. The killer wanted to get there and leave as quickly as possible. The longer he stayed around the more the chances of being seen. Whether late at night, or early morning at least he was acting under the guise of darkness.

    I would disagree that the killer had no intentions when he went there. Maybe he didn't have intent to kill, but he had intent to visit her, to prevent something from happening. Thus he must have known she was there, - thus some element of planning must have been there.

    There is certainly no point in going there, to a house where Sophie is rarely present anyway. Just to check up on her, on the off chance? Don't think so.

    One aspect of the hitman sent by her husband, is why do it in Ireland? Why not in France? Was it just something her husband ordered on the spur of the moment? Was it in Ireland, because of the remoteness of the house? Or could he have done it as well in France? Somewhere where Sophie would have been alone as well?

    Lot's of aspects in this case.



This discussion has been closed.
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