Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

A part of GAI's mindset is that the contract terms are such that a departure 6 minutes late from terminus or more is penalised as if not operated altogether - this is the NTA's fault, mind you - so it's easier to just curtail it/cancel it, especially if it's going to bring problems with driver working hours.

(What's curious in that, if the 18+76 operate to the same working timetable as they did when the L51/L52 came in [they're the newest duties I have at hand], of the four cancelled departures being lambasted at the minute, the latter two are duties returning from their breaks, but the first two are duties starting. A response on Twitter suggests that the return of the last one was also cancelled - as if the entire 11.05 ex Palmerstown 12.40 ex Sandymount lap was just thrown out the window.)

On a 30 minute frequency route 6 mins late is not that bad. I think it's bad that the NTA do not distinguish high and low frequency routes like TFL do.

Is it possible that something unforeseen happened like a bus breaking down or a driver taken ill. Fines should be higher if two consecutive departures fail to operate.

A lot more delays with GAI services again today from what I've seen - for example, 5 Citywest bound 175s all cancelled this evening alone (5th was the 16:51 exUCD). A bunch of DL route trips cancelled too

I'd love to know how they managed to lose four consecutive trips on the 18. The time of day would suggest that at least one bus was probably delayed in traffic earlier, and the driver opted (as is their right) to take their full break. Maybe it was a miserly short break anyway and the driver had no choice but to take it in full. Resolving traffic issues along routes, or the effect that traffic has on buses, would go a long way towards improving reliability. That's up to the NTA and local councils, and they don't seem to have any appetite to do that. On the one hand, they buy loads of shiny new buses, but on the other, they throw them out into traffic and couldn't care less about the people who rely on them.

Another highly likely theory is that one of those buses broke down. B5TLs, especially the slightly older ones, have a habit of doing that. They always used to have a shortage of buses around that time of the morning. I presume that's still the case, so getting a replacement one out might not be immediately possible.

It could have been a total oversight by whoever was in control at the time. Or maybe they simply thought they'd get away with it because it's usually a very quiet time of day on that route. I refuse to believe that it wasn't possible to fit a bus in there somewhere.

Yeah I suppose having the S4 operating from Donnybrook isn't too bad an idea given UCD isn't far from the garage. You could also do the S2 from Conygham Road with handovers at Hueston.

The S2 is basically the 18 swapping it's Western routing with the 17 with a slight extension to Hueston and Poolbeg and vice versa for the S4 albeit being cut short at UCD and being extended to Liffey Valley whilst the S6 is more of less the same as the 175 with an Eastern extension to Blackrock and cut back to Tallaght. The only Southern orbitals that's routing is new rather than being a reshuffle of existing routes is the S8 although that has similarities to both the 75 and 175 and appears to be similar to the original Network Direct 175 proposal before the terminus was changed from DL to UCD.

I'm not sure where exactly the S2 will terminate Sean Moore Road where its proposed on the map now has a grade separated cycle lane that would make it unsuitable for laying over buses. They could use the road that leads out to the Pigeon House and have buses turn and lay over there should be plenty of room as trucks often turn in and out of the various industrial units on that road. Could layover there and not pick up passengers until the Sean Moore Road. Actually coming to think about it would an extension across the East Link to The Point not be a better idea to connect up with the N4 and the Luas.

I should hope the S6 and possibly the S4 will be using the reopened Owenstown Park entrance to enter and exit UCD the new UCD Village has a bus stop marked and ready to go for this purpose I'd imagine. I'd have the S6 use this but keep the S4 using N11 in order to allow for connections from it to the E spine.

Finally I do apologise for going off in a bit of an off topic tangent.

Are Go-Ahead short on buses aswell as drivers now. Saw a single decker on the 18 this afternoon.

Thought they transferred more SGs from DB to alleviate this surprised it's still an issue now they've gone to Saturday plus.

Seems daft that DB never seem to be short on buses but GAI have problems in this regard yet nearly all were bought by the NTA. Mind you I did see DB putting single deckers on the 46a and 145 at peak times years ago.

Would they have much use for them? Considering the electric single deckers are only for the O route which will be operated by DB. I think the NTA made a mistake buying the streetlites they should've just bought all double deckers for GAI.

Very little cost difference to run and it's not like any of the routes have low bridges or anything that would prevent a double decker from operating them.

Probably would've managed it been the summer

Would that not be type familiarisation training?

Could be but odd to have a seat for the instructor if it's only being used for familiarisation purposes. Also would that not be done once the trainees have the test passed so no need for L plates.

It surprises they'd use a relatively new bus like an SG for this aswell. Would think one of their AXs would be ideal.

They certainly have had PSO SGs out on route training from time to time.

No I've seen them alright. Have to say I like the livery on those probably better than the TFI one but no this one was a regular service bus in the original livery but with L plates and a seat for the instructor.

Something like this perhaps? https://www.flickr.com/photos/60501971@N08/52138986465/

I actually prefer the first TFI livery on the GAI buses over the green and yellow livery.

I think it's better to use the same livery for both DB and GAI in order to keep them integrated just a pity the NTA couldn't do very good job on this not sure if I agree with using the same livery for city services and provincial routes mind you.

I think the original TFI actually looks best on the coaches. I think the VBs and the GAI LFs look really good in the TFI livery so I don't see why they couldn't have kept the original TFI livery for commuter/provincial routes and use the yellow and green for city services.

They are standard training buses used to train new mostly B licence holders. Mostly see them on the Northside in the Finglas area as that's where the driving test for large vehicles is carried in Dublin.

The training would be for mechanics I'd imagine. They'll probably use them as ferry buses aswell I'd imagine.

I wonder what fines Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann received for the same period (just in the interests of perspective)?

constant complaints on the local FB groups about GAI's operation of the 184, 185 and 45a routes - I've seen screenshots from the app where 3 45a's are cancelled in a row and claims of last buses being cancelled as well leaving people stranded. Seems to be a bit of a shambles - IDK how it compares with DB's local routes but I haven't seen the same level of complaint about them.

While not minimising the issue, there have been massive levels of cancellations and curtailments for Dublin Bus too over the last six months, including three buses in a row on routes being cancelled. It's masked by the fact that frequencies tend to be higher than those on GAI routes. Bus Éireann have faced serious problems, especially in the northwest, where the levels of cancellations have been very high, with entire routes cancelled on certain days.

While not minimising the issues that GAI have, this isn't something confined to that company, which is why I would be interested to see what the penalties levied on the other operating companies are.

It's obvious it's affecting GAI worse though as they've been the only operator to move to Saturday plus times. I can't speak for BE in the northwest as I live in Dublin but I've seen a few cancellations on DB routes and some running short to the cc only but nothing to the level of GAI.

At least with the short workings to the cc it's better to have a route operating part of the way than not operating at all.

All I'm saying is GAI have gone to Saturday plus times and are still seriously struggling btw whilst DB have stuck to normal MF timetables the whole time so that suggests to the lay man that GAI are having worse issues.

At least when DB services only operate to the cc they operate part of the route better than not operating any of the route at all. Last Friday night I believe the last N6, 75 and 185 didn't operate in either direction at least DB always go out of their way to make sure the last service operates including instructing the driver of the penultimate of the night service to wait and operate the last bus instead.

I support fining operators who don't run services also but only if that's relative to the volume of cancellations and fining more if the last bus is not operational. Last buses being cancelled is not only highly inconvient for passengers but is also in my mind a safety issue if vulnerable induviduals are left stranded.

However there is a solution to the operational issues and it's a solution the operators don't appear to like very much offer better pay and conditions to drivers and you will solve the shortage of drivers in no time. Its not really a shortage it's a shortage of people willing to do the job on pay and conditions that they deem unattractive. Anyone over 21 with a car licence can be trained to drive a bus so make the job more attractive to people and more will come.

DB certainly were struggling with cancellations during the summer with 2 and 3 departures in a row cancelled at times and probably should have gone to some kind of reduced schedule to help with reliability but the problem seems to have improved in recent weeks (albeit some depots are still struggling).

GAI went to a Saturday + schedule which we assumed was for the summer but we're now well into September and it's still in place. And many departures are still not operating. It does make you wonder if they'll ever be able to go back to a full schedule.

I think it's a bit naive though to think that pay increases and improvements to Ts&cs will automatically fix the problem. By all means do that but I think the nature of bus driving and the sacrifices that drivers have to make just doesn't appeal in the slightest to most young people these days and it'll take a lot more than money to get younger people to become drivers and also stick to it.