organic farming

youllbemine · 08-09-2022 11:13pm

Would a Dept. Vet have to be present in that situation?

Thought the below article was interesting. A city in Netherlands is banning public advertising of meat products, fossil fuels and some others.. Could be coming to a town near you soon!

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/06/haarlem-netherlands-bans-meat-adverts-public-spaces-climate-crisis

08-09-2022 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593189#Comment_119593189

Let them go whistle, I'd get the van wrapped in the tastiest looking steak images I could find

Stationmaster · 10-09-2022 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586916#Comment_119586916

Didn't get to go for a finish. Heard there was a big crowd alright. Was it any good?

I'm still not sure. Not having my own slurry means I'll be caught for fertilser. Getting soil samples done so think I'll spend rest of this year/ early next year getting ground right as I can and see then. With the way things are going I think the push for organics will increase anyway so should be ok grant wise.

Has anyone done a few figures on what they'd get with ACRES against what they'd get with Organics?

minerleague · 10-09-2022 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600130#Comment_119600130

Yes good event, you can import slurry / fym from grass based non organic farms, straw for bedding can also come from conventional tillage. Host farmer said he would be organic even without grants but the feeling I got from questions from crowd was " how much can I get away with and still be organic?"

10-09-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601062#Comment_119601062

Tbh, I think that's a fair question, a lot of people don't understand what organic is and are feeling out the T's&C's and how they'd relate to their own farm.

minerleague · 10-09-2022 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601170#Comment_119601170

Suppose so but I think up to now most organic farmers believed in the concept but many who will join now are doing it because of raised grants and higher fertilizer prices (myself included ). Was talking to advisor about ACRES and he said with milk price being good not many dairy farmers will join organics. He also said he hasn't many organic clients but the few he has can't wait for the 5 year contract to be over .

10-09-2022 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601249#Comment_119601249

Yes there certainly are motivating factors for entry that weren't there before. The carrot is larger as our politicians are under duress from Europe, the European aim is 25% organic where as Ireland has a target of 7.5%. After doing the course I think a lack of education is the barrier, people have notions about organics that are more grounded in "talk" than anything else. I have a good neighbour that I only found out this year has been organic for years. HE never told me because other farmers regarded him as a clown for going into it. I think he was smarter than me anyway, he went and found out about it.

Packrat · 12-09-2022 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601596#Comment_119601596

Not surprised, I've been told "you took the soup by going Organic" from one ignoramus.

12-09-2022 7:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119609051#Comment_119609051

Tell him it was damn tasty too 😄 eejits

endainoz · 13-09-2022 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587059#Comment_119587059

Absolutely nothing wrong with selling organic animals in a conventional sale. Doing it the other way around is the issue. You don't need an advisor to do paperwork either, it's fairly straightforward. Going by your post, you don't have a great attitude towards the whole thing though, which won't make it easy for you.

endainoz · 13-09-2022 12:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587147#Comment_119587147

They are stackable, but at a much lower rate, so low in fact that it's not really worth the while. The scoring system really ruins it for organics too, score below an 8 on a field and you get zero.

893bet · 13-09-2022 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119610342#Comment_119610342

and 8 or above will not be easy! That’s for the results based measure. There is a second 10ha measure which looks like it’s not results driven. Is that stackable iI wonder ? I assume not

eddiek · 13-09-2022 10:10am

Does the organic scheme for new entrants only open every 5 years ? or can someone new join any year?thanks

endainoz · 13-09-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611068#Comment_119611068

It's currently open, dosent really follow a pattern but with the big push to get people converted, it'll probably stay open.

tractorporn · 13-09-2022 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611068#Comment_119611068

The minister has said it will open in October every year for the next 5 years. Before this it was at the mercy of the minister whether a scheme opened or not and you could have two schemes opened in a year and then nothing for a couple of years. It will be interesting to see if there's an election if they're honour pippas pledge

tractorporn · 13-09-2022 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611203#Comment_119611203

It's not open at the min. It's due to open sometime in October and if I were a betting man I'd say the minister will announce the opening and closing dates next week at the ploughing

14-09-2022 12:18am

Can you designate say 20 hectares as organic purely for the purposes of growing red clover silage with slurry / dung and use that to join organic but leave the rest of your farm as non organic grazing?

14-09-2022 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119615373#Comment_119615373

Check, but AFAIK you can split a holding BUT you won't be allowed have the same crop or animal on both the conventional and organic parts, nor storage.

14-09-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119615805#Comment_119615805

Thanks. Would use the organic say 30 acres purely for growing red clover silage.

Siamsa Sessions · 14-09-2022 12:02pm

Was talking to a dairy farmer last week and he told me he has been increasing clover on the farm with years, ever before the price of fertiliser started rising. This year, he has spread no synthetic nitrogen on the grazing ground, only following the cows with watery slurry via a trailing shoe. The clover has been built up slowly so he reckons the cows don't get bloat issues as their diet changed slowly and they got used to the increased clover in it over time.

Anyway, I asked him if going organic was the next step and he said, not a hope! I was surprised but when he explained his thinking, it gave an insight into how little thought has been put into pushing organics by Govt.

He reckons there's less than 100 organic dairy farmers in Ireland at the moment. (Is that right? Seems very low). If there are 18,000 conventional dairy farmers, and the Govt want to get to 7.5% of land in organic production, then that could translate into 1,000 dairy farmers producing organic milk in the next five years. These are obviously rough figures, and I doubt many dairy farmers will convert, but it makes you wonder if the Govt even considered where all that organic milk will be processed?

Never mind the consumer demand aspect, is it valid to ask if DAFM or Pippa have asked Glanbia, Dairygold, etc. what their plan is for managing the extra organic milk? How will they process and market it alongside their current business?

Without that piece in place, would organic milk go the same way as organic beef and lamb, with much produce being sold into conventional markets and farmers struggling to get their milk processed?

14-09-2022 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616195#Comment_119616195

You'd want to make certain by asking one of the certification bodies, Organic Trust or Irish Organic Association

Cran · 14-09-2022 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616195#Comment_119616195

Not sure you would pass the stocking rate requirement , and wouldn’t be classed as tillage either

Cran · 14-09-2022 12:39pm

Can’t see any dairy farmers converting to organic outside of ones for belief reasons, numbers will never add up

mauser77 · 14-09-2022 12:45pm

Afaik i don't think this would be possible organic is generally a closed system so your bringing ur p and k from a conventional farm into an organic farm while allowed as a once off here or there to correct an issue its not best practice and i cant see a licence been issued if that was your business model. But its a question for one of the bodies to answer

youllbemine · 14-09-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616607#Comment_119616607

Pretty sure I heard on the 'Organic Matters' podcast hosted by Hannah Quinn Mulligan that there are approximately 66 organic dairy farmers in Ireland.

blue5000 · 14-09-2022 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119615373#Comment_119615373

BT I think it will work if you have half the organic area in RC and the other half of the organic area in tillage eg oats. Sow the RC while in conversion for the first 2 years, then put oats in for year 3 and RC on the other half. The oats should get you through the hoop, provided you only have organic oats on the farm. Winter oats seem to be easier to grow than spring oats.

Depending on soil fertility then wether you can import slurry on to your organic area or not. As someone already said slurry has to be from a non intensive enterprise, ie grass fed cattle is ok, but not pig slurry. Grazing the RC is not worthwhile, but may be possible with non organic stock, with permission and provided they are not dosed. I’m open to correction on the grazing though.

893bet · 15-09-2022 6:59am

https://assets.gov.ie/231431/67197a34-27f4-45c4-b712-a5ff1316dffd.pdf

Appendix 6 shows acres interaction with organic. Not worth the bother if in organic is my take.

massey 265 · 15-09-2022 8:27am

The only options if in organic

without organic payment deductions are linear options eg new hedge planting .tree planting and less.The grass margin option could be a runner as electric fence will suffice if bovines only.deductions from organic payments will be minimal as 10000 mtrs in a hectare.

blue5000 · 15-09-2022 10:18am

Doesn’t seem to add up for me anyway, I already pay €700 odd for organic reg, what’s the point in giving money to a planner, risking another inspection and possible penalties and a cut on some of my organic payments? My farm probably suits acres 100% but the scheme doesn’t suit me. I think the double bubble has burst.

Laying hedges or dry stone walling is slave labour for me and costs too much for someone else to do it.

Water John · 16-09-2022 9:04pm

Looking at the ACRES scheme, for anyone considering Organic, the Organic wins hands down. There are only a few overlapping in ACRES that suit me, an organic farmer. Barn owl, catch crops, traditional orchard and tree planting. Total, a bit over €3K/year.

organic farming

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