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Often becomes easy when the easy is often..

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Baby75 wrote: »
    You are most welcome, sounds like you got a lot out of it as well :) it is something I have to watch and have learnt the hard way

    I hope your feeling much better now I have no doubt you will mind your self and will get back out when you are right.

    did you get out on the bike yet

    A friend did similar to her calf 6 weeks ago now and she is still not back yet but that is more to do with rushing back out too soon and ending up in a bad way again.

    Hey N, thanks again for the link.

    I got out on my wife's old mountain bike for a little cycle about, but not much.

    I'm going to go out for a light jog tester run later today, I'll do 4 miles or so and check it out. Although, the story of your friend is a little worrying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    4m went without issue thankfully.

    I'll do a week or so of that sort of effort then see where I'm at.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Warmed up, ready, in a skin soaked singlet, dripping with June morning rain.

    Push the button on the mat and bounce with hope and bluster.

    Striding the centre of the road, a camber either side.

    Splashing summer puddle water cooling on my calf.

    Reeling in and reeling out, confidence and casting doubt.

    Bluster broken a mile inside, the distance is in charge.

    Rain sheltered scattered applause as the turn is met,
    headed now for home.

    Eyes not meeting those behind, all focusing on the pain.

    The last mile and the hope lifts, the pain dulls and
    the brain shifts, into what ifs, into calculations, into permutations, into the last stretch, into the final few, the gantry view, the best is on if I can only push, if I can only squeeze, if I can only get there.

    The clock turns, while my heart burns.

    If I can only get there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    I seen your result first off and was obviously delighted for you C, sorry it was so short lived but knowing the company involved it was an honest mistake as you have said in other threads.

    You’re where your initial result showed today, head down and onto the next one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Cheers B, yeah, was pretty gut wrenching when I read the email, after getting all the congrats on Strava. Felt really embarrassed about the whole thing, even though I knew that was silly.

    No hard feelings my end at all for the guys, they're the soundest. An easy mistake.

    Wish they had waited until tomorrow to break the news, was enjoying being a 19:37 guy :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Time to revive this I think after two years. Adding the link to Swashbuckler's marathon sheet.

    Will put together a post over the weekend with my plans and where I feel I'm at.


    lol, totally forgot that poem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    That’s great C. Best of luck with the training.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Forgive me Father, it's been over two years since my last confession.

    Firing things back up here as it's the first time in over two years that I have a goal race and a block ahead of me. Starting a Bob Williams 12 week plan next week for DCM.

    Have had a fair few life changes in the last two years that have affected running, we had a baby girl in July 2020 making three little ones in the house. I wasn't prepared for the difference that made to available time. I've kept running consistently though barring a couple of bouts of covid. Pretty much no racing during 2020/2021, pretty much nothing other than aerobic running either.

    A real positive thing to happen though, in many ways, was my wife finding a love for running. Three kids in the house motivated her to get to the end of C25K after many attempts 😊

    It's great because we both now understand what's involved in terms of time, getting an early night now and then etc, and work together to both fit it in.


    I'm excited to begin the BW plan next week. It's six days a week with stuff on Tuesdays and Thursdays and a long run on Saturdays. The stuff is a mix of tempo workouts, some pace runs and intervals. 200m reps at 5k effort and 400 - mile reps at 10k effort.

    I'll be tweaking the plan somewhat though, as there's a couple of monster long runs that I'm not going to do.

    I've spent the last 10 weeks following a FRR base plan building to 45 mpw, and feel in fairly good shape for the weeks ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Best of luck woth the training, will follow with interest!

    Will see you then in McGrattons 😉



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Be following yours too. Cheers E.

    Haha, yeah, can't wait for McGrattons :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Great to see this, C, after bumping into you at Swords. You seem to be in very good shape heading into this, and a 12-week plan is a good approach when you have the base. Not familiar with this Bob Williams approach - tell us more, and why this plan over other more familiar ones?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Cheers D. I'd love to say I did exhaustive research on his method, compared it to various others etc but I simply just liked the look of it.

    I was going through a few different plans in Noakes' Lore of Running, I wanted something challenging but simple and this fits the bill. Page 612 if you have the book.

    It's his Sub 3 program, which obv I'm not targeting, some parts of it are a little too intense which I plan to tone down a little. He has a 23m and a 25m long run in there which I'm not doing. Also, I'll be tapering a little more than suggested on it I think.

    Speed work on Tuesdays and Thursdays, long run Saturdays. Short recovery runs on Sundays. Ranges between 40 - 55 mpw

    Next week looks like this,

    Mon - 5 mile

    Tue - 5x 800 @10k

    Wed - 5 mile

    Thurs - 5k tempo

    Sat - 15 miles

    Sun - 4 miles



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Good to see you back posting.

    This gave me an excuse to dust down a book I haven't read in a long time (not that I read it, but you get my drift).

    I think the devil is in the detail regarding this plan, specifically regarding the paces. e.g. Long Runs at 35-55 secs per KM slower than MP (huge gap imo)

    I also think there's a value in adding more 'pace' runs (MP) to his schedule - even 4-5 miles towards the end of a normal long run.

    Best of luck with it - I'll be following along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I do have that book, must take a look out of interest.

    A, I wouldn't have an issue with LRs 35-55 secs slower than MP - do you mean huge gap in the 35-55 sec range or huge gap between MP and that range (or both?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Yep, I did notice only 3x pace runs. I will definitely incorporate a bit of it into long runs, on tired legs. The two easy days following them will allow for it.

    As D said, am interested to know your thoughts on that long run pace.


    Given you both have the book, there's a bit of a confusing bit there about tempo runs. On the bullet point bit it says 'Should cover no more than half the total distance listed for each tempo session', but in the text underneath it states run the distance indicated (after a WU). Any idea if I'm missing something there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Had a look there. The details below the table say run a 3-5k warmup and cooldown before and after every session so I'd take it that the distances indicated in the table are the tempo portion only and the bullet point is an editing error. So that 4k tempo in week 3 would be part of a 10-14k total run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Thanks D. Figured it must have been an error alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Best of luck with it - a decent looking plan with some challenging sessions. Good call on that 40k long run though!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    the gap between 35 and 55 secs PER KM is huge - per Mile its big - but per KM its even bigger. As a % of MP it must be a huge swing.

    My advice would be as the weeks progress - try to run as close to +35secs as possible. i.e. +55secs for a couple of weeks, then +50 secs, +45, +35.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Well, 35-55/k equates to 0:56-1:29 per mile. I certainly wouldn't argue with that with my own 7:38/mile marathon pace, which I think is close enough to what C is targeting, although I agree that it's good to do some long runs faster than others. Like any schedule, it depends on what else you are doing during the week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Cheers guys, food for thought in both of those posts. Maybe I'll keep on the easier side of it for the first couple of weeks, and then generally go with how it feels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    I don't think that first week could have gone better. I'm really happy with it.

    All three workout days went exactly as planned.

    Monday - 5 miles easy. This was fun. About three years ago I discovered a route from my house that is bang on 8km by the time I get back to the start point, and it forms a figure 8 on Strava. Thought it quirky and weird at the time. I had the idea of running it on the 8th of Aug, at 8:08am. Last year I only remembered it at 3pm and was gutted lol. So I put it into my calendar so I wouldn't forget it this time. Got up on Mon morn and hung around for a bit then hit the button on the watch at 8:08. So I did 8km, in a figure 8, at 8:08 on the 8th of the 8th. 8km on the plan for that day as the opening run of it just for extra synchronicity.

    Tuesday - 5x 800 @ 10k pace These went so well. Warmed up with a 4k run to the canal. Did four of them on the flat canal and the fifth on the road back home. The fifth one was done on a bit of a drag. Wished I'd done it on the flat when I saw the stats on Garmin afterwards. Really happy with the consistency. 3:29.8, 3:29.8, 3:29.8, 3:29.7, 3:33.6. 400m jog recoveries, 2 mile cooldown.

    Wednesday - 5 miles easy. 5:56km

    Thursday - 5k Tempo - 4k warm up to the canal again, building effort/pace. Target pace for the tempo was 4:32. Splits were 4:35, 4:32, 4:32, 4:33, 4:32. Again real happy with consistency here. 4k cool down.

    Friday - Rest

    Saturday - Long run - 15 miles. Said I'd see how this felt and decide whether to stick to the slower end of the range we discussed above. Felt really good and the HR was in good shape so ran it average 40 secs slower than target MP. 5:26km. 132 bpm average. Took fuel on at 7.5 miles, an Enervit cola gel from a race goodie bag. Worked well. Felt a noticeable increase in energy after about 3k so will experiment with that again next week.

    Sunday - 4 mile recovery. 6:20km

    45.25 miles total.


    Might be noticeable that I used pace as a reference for the sessions instead of HR. I'm going to do that for the forseeable, a few weeks anyway. I'm not confident of my LT HR. Plan was to test for it but I didn't and I base everything around that. I've a fair idea of what it is but would rather have a precise number. Enjoyed running to pace immensely though so may just stick with that.


    I've also ditched my idea of running the race itself guided by HR after taking feedback from here onboard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Nice week.

    That's really weird - I also took an Enervit cola gel from a long forgotten goody bag too - small one, aimed more at cyclists? Wonder what race that was - I assumed mine was years old!

    Completely agree with your race to pace decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    I think we may have gotten them at the race series 10k. I think they are aimed a cyclists alright from googling today.

    Goes to show the idea of freebies pays off. I'm going to buy a bunch of them.

    How did you get on with your one?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    That’s a nice week C. Love your “8” day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I only

    Only took the one but it went down well enough. Seemed too small though? I hadn’t read the nutrition details as I wasn’t expecting to use that one - it was the only one I could find at short notice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Baby75


    I so had to look up the 8k on the 8th that is brilliant 😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Decent week again, am happy with it. Only slight negative is sacrificing the Sat run to pace my wife in the FD10. Negative in the sense of a training log of course.

    Mon Aug 15th - 5 mile easy. 5:53km, felt quite leggy for this one.

    Tue Aug 16th - 3x 1 mile @ 10k. Decent session, usual 4k warm up to the canal. Reps were 6:59, 7:00, 7:01. 4k cool down.

    Wed Aug 17th - 5 mile easy again, 5:50km

    Thurs Aug 18th - 10 mile. Was a little confused for a bit about this one the day or two beforehand. Wasn't sure whether I should run it easy or treat it the same as a Saturday long run. Plan clearly states Tue, Thurs and Sat are stuff days, and every other run is to be easy so I ran it like a Saturday one. 5:25km

    Saturday Aug 20th - I got a bit of friendly stick off a close friend a few weeks back at a BBQ. He said I was a selfish B for my plans to race off and leave my wife behind at the race series events. He was joking with me of course but it did guilt me into feeling that maybe he had a point. I decided to let go of the 10 mile and run with her instead. I had never run with her before. It was real enjoyable. I did a bit of wind shielding and encouraging. Picked the pace up for the last mile and she finished real strong. Delighted I did it.

    Sunday Aug 21st - Ran a little more than prescribed due to the previous day's effort. A little over 10k easy, 6:00km.


    46.25 miles for the week.


    I'm doing a bit of strength stuff too on the session days. Pull up bar and press ups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    You'll never regret running with your partner/wife/husband/etc in a race................one of the joys of running I think. I always remember running with my daughter in a parkrun on her 13th B'day - probably my slowest but best ever parkrun.

    Now if it was to happen every time and slow you down - then a conversatiopn has to be had.

    Love the '8' run - brilliant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Cheers A, you're right, it was a really fantastic experience. I definitely would have regretted it had I not.

    Running with your daughter is very special. My eldest is 8, so it's not too far off for me either, can't wait for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Tipping along nicely C, I think it was lovely that you paced your wife, special memories & I'm sure she really appreciated it too😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Thanks E, yeah, it was real nice.

    She didn't appreciate me roaring encouragement down the final stretch though, I got a grunted 'STFU' back at me haha.

    She said sorry straight after, said it reminded her of when I was yapping to her during labour, when she gave me similar back 😄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Week 3 summary

    Monday Aug 22nd - 5 miles easy - 5:37km 130bpm, lunchtime run in the Abbottstown XC track. Maybe a touch nippy.

    Tuesday Aug 23rd - 4k tempo - 3k warm up + 3k cool down. Splits were 4:29, 4:33, 4:26, 4:25. Again on the XC track

    Wednesday Aug 24th - 5m easy again - 6:00km 122bpm. (Every Mon & Wed throughout the block are 5 miles easy)

    Thursday Aug 25th - 8x 200s @5k effort, 400m jog recs - 4k WU, 4k CD. Enjoyed these. Not used to 200s so found it tricky to get the effort right on a couple of them. Splits were 47,48,48,50,47,47,49,47

    Saturday Aug 27th - 28k long run - Really happy with how I felt on this one. Targetted 5:30km pace, and hovered around that for the entire run, average pace 5:28. Took in Castletown parkrun in the middle of it. Tested that gel again at 8 miles and felt the same boost about 15 mins later. Will be going with them I think.

    Sunday Aug 28th - 5k recovery jog @ 6:17km


    45.2 miles for the week.


    Abbottstown XC track is such a dream to run by the way, I'm lucky that I work close by and can get a lunchtime few miles in on it. Would highly recommend a trip to it if you haven't been. Every time I run it I can't get over the fact that it's right in the middle of Blanch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,520 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    +1 Only been there once and ran around in my bare feet on a dry day with damp conditions underfoot. I'm not in the habit of feeling almost zen at the end of a run but that's as close I've gotten.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Oh that sounds fantastic. I sometimes run it with my top off as you pretty much have the whole place to yourself. Even did some press ups between strides haha. Wouldn't dream of it with people around.

    Zen is the word alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Incomplete 4th week, disappointed but knew there was a chance it would be disrupted with work.


    Monday Aug 29th - 5m easy - 5:48km, 130bpm

    Tuesday Aug 30th - 4x 1m @ 10k - 4k warm up, 4k cool down. Splits were 7:00, 6:58, 7:03, 7:04. 9.5 miles total.

    Wednesday Aug 31st - 5m easy, 5:48km, 120bpm.

    Thursday Sep 1st - 9k pace run + WU/CD. Was up at 4am for a flight to Berlin for work. Was worried I'd struggle to get this one in and really didn't want to miss it. Berlin while amazing is a tricky place to run this sort of workout. The only place I could do it, and run without needing to stop was Tiergarten park. Pretty much full tree cover though. That and trying not to get lost made what is generally a mentally tough run anyway particularly hard. Felt really strong physically though, particularly towards the end. Buzzing after it really. 9m total.

    Friday Sep 2nd - 6k easy - 5:57km 121bpm.

    Unusual week this one, plan had me resting Saturday and a race Sunday. I knew I'd be getting home from Berlin close on 1am Sunday morn/Sat night so I had planned to do a straightforward long run instead, on the Sunday. Promised my wife a lie in as she had had a tough few days with the little ones by herself. By the time she was up and about and with all other stuff happening I couldn't find a 2 hour + window to get it done. Was no hope of getting up and out at 6am. A little down about it, but feck it I'll survive one missed session.

    Miles for the week - 32.25



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Nice work on the FD pacing. I've paced the missus once or twice (including a full M) and have had some similar reactions. It can be hard to stamp the usual pacer authority on the proceedings!

    Wouldn't worry a single bit about a missed session or two, it's all about the consistency and you have that in abundance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Solid week 5 with everything going to plan.


    Monday Sep 5th - 5m easy, 5:36, HR averaging around 128. Having some issues with the HRM, erratic for the first mile or so before settling. Happened Saturday too. Maybe needs a battery change.

    Tuesday Sep 6th - 6x 200 @5k, 400m jog recoveries. Usual 4k up and 4k down. Reps were 48, 49, 48, 47, 47, 47. 7.3 miles total.

    Wednesday Sep 7th - 5m easy. 5:51, 119 bpm.

    Thursday Sep 8th - 5x 1k @10k, 2:30 recoveries. 4k up, 4k down. Reps were 4:23, 4:18, 4:20, 4:20, 4:22. 8.4 miles total.

    Saturday Sep 10th - 34k long run. Similar to the 28k from two weeks ago the aim was to hover around 5:30km pace. Managed it really well I feel. Average pace 5:27. Real nice confidence booster this one. My 2018 marathon was a disaster. The wheels came off at 20 miles. It felt really good to be feeling strong at 20 miles running a similar pace to then but at a far lower effort level. Average HR was approx 131 or so (HRM erratic for first two miles).

    Sunday Sep 11th - 5k recovery jog. Needed to run 5.06km to get me over the line for a 50 mile week. Delighted with that. Been trying and failing for so long with such a busy family life to run a 50 mile week, so it's a particularly special little achievement for me 😊


    Total miles for the week - 50.14 miles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    well done - not easy to balance it all is it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Well done on your 50mile week, it's not easy at all!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Certainly tricky with a bunch of nippers alright P, as you know yourself :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    snip snip



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Thanks a mill E 👍 Many more to come hopefully



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭Lazare




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks




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