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Property and inheritance taxes should be raised, says State’s commission on tax and welfare

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭amacca


    Your position in the post I quoted was something like you have no right to an inheritance....


    If you tried to enforce that I believe I would be proven correct..


    I'm doubtful we would ever get to see it play out as its unlikely to happen imho


    Yours is a zealots view afaics.....at times policy is dictated by views like that but it never ends well


    Complete freedom to hoard wealth by transferring from one generation to the next probably isn't a great idea either I will concede.....its a balance but you appear to be advocating the pendulum swinging entirely in one direction....always ends in tears imho



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Unless you are married, you do not have a right currently to an inheritance. And that exception is only a relatively recent innovation. Don't see any wars being fought over that.

    That means that any inheritance is obviously not earned by the benefactor. It is a gift.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭amacca


    Ah...I presumed you meant a child etc should have no right to an inheritance even if a parent wanted to give it


    That changes things somewhat, I misunderstood mea culpa



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    The taxes have already been paid on that money. It makes a huge difference obviously the person who died has either the asset/cash put by for his family. Its the individual who is dead who has made the sacrifice in order to pass this on and they will have paid a life time of taxes in order to do so. Why should the state get more when they have already been paid? You have yet to answer that question and stating sh1te about a train line upping a property by 60k as a valid reason is nonsense. The person dying could have paid a multiple of that in tax over their life time and used very few services. Also there is property tax on the property along with VAT on home insurance policies on the person getting the house and when the property is sold their will be stamp duty as well as other VAT taxes on things like solicitor fees, EA fees. I mean how much more blood do you want? You have yet to make a valid argument of where this tax goes its p1ssed away so no more taxes no matter what guise until our spend is sorted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Your funny, you don't see the correlation between the taxes you want everyone else to pay or what they are already paying and the schemes that they are funding. Our taxes already pay for schemes like First time buyers help to buy, HAP and First home affordable purchase shared equity scheme. These 3 schemes which are funded by the tax payer have upped house prices more than any other factor in Ireland and this can be seen by the price differential of a new home and a 2nd hand one in the same location as I say what we spend our taxes on needs to be addressed before more money is thrown into the likes of these schemes or anyone asked to pay any more tax at all. Not to mention the state is actually competing to buy property with the average Joe pushing up prices even more using the tax payers dime. There is no thought or regard for unforeseen consequences and judging by our governments burn rate of spend they think they are playing monopoly and using monopoly money. The magic money tree of the ECB printing press has been turned off and with the interest rates only going one way its time to pay the piper 240Billion in debt will be a lot more expensive come rollover time and any further borrowing is going to be very expensive.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,166 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I be telling the state commission on tax reform - to fook right off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,959 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    DB schemes were closed to new members, or in some cases, to new contributions. Existing DB scheme members continue to get their pension benefits from the schemes. In very rare case where both the scheme and the company was insolvent (Waterford Crystal), the government accepted liability and paid up.


    Government also changed the rules for new public servants from 2013 onwards who now get the Single Pension Scheme, which has significantly reduced the benefits available. 


    Your estimate of the cost of contributions is way off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,049 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I hope you aren't actually a musician or someone who earns their living as an 'artist'.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The majority of people getting houses as inheritance are in their 50s and 60s and already have their own home. They are getting an asset, one perhaps with sentimental value but an asset all the same.

    Also there is a rather massive tax-free allowance for parent-to-child inheritance, and legal claims to inheritance. So it is vastly different from "any other pps number".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Ellie2008


    A DB pension scheme for the public sector when almost no one in the private sector in profit making companies still has access to one is a absolute joke. It should be shut to new contributions as so many were in the private sector post-2008 and public servants should have access to a defined contribution scheme with all the risks that entails the same as the rest of us going forward.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    That's not what I'm saying. Inheritance taxes are a positive thing for society generally as they prevent hoarding of assets, but there is also a value in providing for it if you desire too. So zealots at the 0% or 100% ends of the scale I would completely disagree with. Rates and thresholds should be set so that the wishes of the deceased can be followed but also that the needs of society should be served too. It's about striking a balance.

    It's also worth remembering that even after tax, every euro you inherit is a euro you didn't have before. It should never ever be considered an entitlement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Every Euro inherited has already had PRSI, PAYE, USC, VAT, Cabon tax, stamp duty paid on it. I wont even mention the blood sweat and tears that the individual has gone through to build up the inheritance they are leaving. The tax has already been paid. Your narrative is ludicrous and you have refused to debate the spend side of where this money goes. If you feel that we should pay more tax might I suggest you go and hand over 100% of wages and give your house to the state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭thegame983


    It is convenient that none of these new measures will effect the people making these decisions. They have already inherited everything they are due to get. They are just pulling up the ladder after them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If we could massively reduce spending I would be lowering PAYE long before I would be lowering inheritance tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I 100% agree I am not even saying we should get rid of inheritance taxes I am saying as a nation we should be paying zero extra taxes as we are over taxed as it is and the gobsh1tes in power think they are playing monopoly when they are spending it there is zero accountability for the politicians. So like I say anyone looking for more taxes let them go and give their wages and any other assets to the state first and then get someone in from the outside to look at what the government are spending the money on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This is almost definitely not true.

    People seem to have a pretty skewed view of the average age of those getting inheritance. It is unlikely to be used to get their first home, or set up a business. It is going to be a lump sum of money when they are already in their 50s or older.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This has come up many times before, but we do not have particularly high rates of tax in Ireland.

    There is accountability for politicians, that is what elections are for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    We pay 51% at a very low rate in this country. We pay taxes on every day activities from VAT on majority every service or goods we use or consume. There are a lot of people paying a lot of taxes.

    There is no accountability for them yeah they get voted out with a nice juicy pension for them to continue leeching off the tax payer sure why would you bother doing anything hard when your in power when your pocket is not impacted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Well as an example, Michael Martin's parents are both dead so he HAS inherited whatever he was due to get. Now that he has gotten what's his him and his cronies want to make sure that younger people don't befit fro the same privileges that they had.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Ellie2008


    I don’t see it. Firstly it’s a recommend from a Commission I think? Secondly M Martin has three children & Im sure he’d like to pass as much as possible of his assets to them.

    That said, I’m anti more taxes of any kind right this minute. The longer I live the more stories I hear of waste - the amount of money given to hotel owners to house refugees, one contact I heard about was multi millions & the place is a dump.

    If taxes were being used to fund a better life for carers, the disabled etc. I’d have no issue paying more personally.

    But I can’t shake the impression that there are far too many people in different parts of the system taking the piss.

    Then there’s the level of benefits & the seeming lack of accountability within the public sector.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭SC024


    Let them feck off & find ways to do things more cost effetively in the government / public sector as a whole instead of the current spending money like there is no tomorrow & then looking to squeeze the taxpayer more.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ok, as a counterexample Leo Varadkar's parents are very much alive. It wasn't even a suggestion from Martin.

    Most of those who would vote on this were it to come to pass would be impacted by it, because most people get their inheritance when they are quite old given that life expectancy in Ireland is about 82.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    SF will be in Government shortly, and they will increase wealth taxes.

    The socialist state will be further to the left.

    Most of the wealth in Ireland is held in property and private pensions.

    This is what they will hit - increase property taxes, increase the pension levy.

    Theres no way to avoid this, as Revenue collect it at source.

    Yes, I can see CAT being adjusted, lower tax-free thresholds, increase the tax to 40%.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    SF will be in Government shortly, and they will increase wealth taxes.

    SF want to abolish the only wealth tax we have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,049 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "OUTGOING Taoiseach Leo Varadkar put the cat among pigeons when he said that inheritance tax should be abolished for anyone inheriting an average-priced home." https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/explainer-why-leo-varadkar-is-pushing-to-abolish-inheritance-tax-39304925.html

    The tax rate on inheritance is too high and even a Taoiseach has acknowledged this. Calls to increase probably the world's highest rate of such a tax are absolutely bonkers.

    The head of the body recommending all this :

    "Professor Niamh Moloney is Chair of the Commission on Taxation and Welfare.

    She is a Professor of Law in the Department of Law at the London School of Economics and Political Science."

    What do you suppose she gets paid on top of her day job?

    "Shocking Left Wing Bias at the LSE...Last Wednesday the London School of Economics and Political Science hosted a three-way debate on the subject of democracy, put on by the Forum for European Philosophy. Entitled “The Worst Form of Government?”, an allusion to Churchill’s famous remark, it set out to debate the question of whether or not the democratic system really is the ideal way to govern a country." https://thebackbencher.co.uk/shocking-left-wing-bias-at-the-lse/

    Socialism is alive and well in the Irish Public service - albeit extremely well paid socialism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    You'd swear every home was taxed at 80 percent when inherited they way you are going on.

    And stating earlier on that every generation is poorer than the last - absolute nonsense. You completely contradicted yourself in that entire last post a few posts back.

    Even this post - what a load of nonsense and drama.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    What percentage of spending cuts is required before you'd accept paying 33 percent tax on inheritances over 300 odd thousand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭thegame983


    The last thing the government want is people inheriting a house from their parents and subsequently passing it down the line to their children and so forth.

    Home ownership is to be a luxury only foreign investment firms should be able to afford.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Average house price in Ireland at most recent figures is approximately 320k. Tax on average house in Ireland passing from parent to child.....zero.



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