Scottish independence

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2022 6:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613621#Comment_119613621

Your language suggests you do not care much for self determination

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2022 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613399#Comment_119613399

At the moment, very few in the leadership of the SNP. The court case is in about 4 weeks and then we will see

An Claidheamh · 13-09-2022 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613621#Comment_119613621

Why would Scotland want to be part of the UK when the latter signs international agreements and breaks them?

Sam Russell · 13-09-2022 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613676#Comment_119613676

There is no option for a NI to become an independent country.

They remain part of the UK until a border poll allows them to become part of a united Ireland. Of course, that depends on the SoS for NI allowing a border poll (not sure any Tory SoS would agree to one) and Ireland, in a referendum, accepting them, but I am sure they would.

breezy1985 · 13-09-2022 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613830#Comment_119613830

Well if the majority of NI voted for an Independence party like Scotland did it would be on the agenda but that's obviously never going to happen.

L1011 · 13-09-2022 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613676#Comment_119613676

NI also print their own money on the same basis (secured against Sterling).

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569757#Comment_119569757

I do suppose you're right. There's absolutely no proof that any States' in Northern Europe of around 5m people could be in anyway successful and be independent.

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570058#Comment_119570058

What does any of that even mean?

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570116#Comment_119570116

It won't be that messy. The English/Scottish border has very few crossings. It's incomparable to the British -imposed border in Ireland.

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573103#Comment_119573103

The Union should continue so partition can continue. I see. This obsession of Irish Unionists of Scotland being an "ally" is weird.

breezy1985 · 13-09-2022 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614269#Comment_119614269

Never-endum is the type of shte you see ripped straight off loopy political Twitter accounts.

Also it's not a border crossed regularly because it's mostly a deadzone population wise. You would have minor problems at Gretna and I know there are English people commuting into Carlisle (many moved to score free uni for the kids)

Capt'n Midnight · 13-09-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119610791#Comment_119610791

Scottish pound is pegged to Sterling. It would cost England billions to even begin to consider the possibility of breaking the 1:1 hard link from their side. And all for nothing if the Scots don't break the link from their side.

Scotland are par t of the CTA a prexisting mini-Schengen, if they can grandfather in their previous exemptions then EU membership would be trivial.

Worst case a Norway deal works for Scotland.

Brexiteers didn't have facts and figures, just emotions and the hope that the EU would collapse at the negotiations and fully later on. Brexit for Brexiteeers was a zero-sum gain , for the UK to win the EU must lose, except the EU didn't collapse.

The arguments from the pro UK side are mostly FUD. All about possible downsides. No upsides for staying in the union are there ?

It cannot be stressed enough that at present a lot of the corporate profits made in Scotland are declared in head offices in London and are taxed in England.

pixelburp · 13-09-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614289#Comment_119614289

It's also rather baffling, the suggestion that a border arrangement would be anything but relatively amenable. Brexit has been a disaster, Northern Ireland a noted plaything of the Tories but a land border between Scotland and England woild, in my estimation, be a trivial part of the discussions. Especially as it's not an especially populous part of the world.

Fr Tod Umptious · 13-09-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614324#Comment_119614324

The way I'd like to see a united Ireland come about is via a poll when it's a foregone conclusion that NI will vote for unification.

That means that unification has a strong mandate.

Were Scotland to leave the union then the union itself and NI's place in it would come under scrutiny.

And that could lead to a very unstable situation in NI that could result in violence.

Now I have no great time for the NI unionists cause but at the same time I'd rather not see any more people lose their lives up there.

So Scotland's departure could have a destabilizing affect which could lead to violence.

Fr Tod Umptious · 13-09-2022 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614401#Comment_119614401

Brexiteers didn't have facts and figures, just emotions

The Scots are pretty low on facts and figures also, have a read of the 2013 white paper and it's all aspirational stuff

And they have plenty of emotion.

breezy1985 · 13-09-2022 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614571#Comment_119614571

All sides and pundits praised IndyRef precisely because people debated and voted with clear heads and not emotion.

You hate Sturgeon I get it but you are just going around in already debunked circles.

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613342#Comment_119613342

Why do you keep repeating yourself and creating such ridiculous strawmen and hurdles to try and prove your tenuous arguments?

tinytobe · 13-09-2022 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614649#Comment_119614649

I could ask you the same question.

I just don't agree with Scottish independence.

The word is "Never" just as Paisley would have barked it.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614661#Comment_119614661

You do not agree with Scotland becoming an independent sovereign country? That is fine and you can vote No in the forthcoming referendum. I will be voting Yes

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614661#Comment_119614661

You could ask the same question alright but it wouldn't make sense seeing as I've not being outlining the same nonsense like yourself.

You pedalled this nonsense a few months back and then disappeared. I mean, your use of terms like "federal elections" shows you're firmly out of your depth. Thankfully, you'll not be voting in indyref2.

13-09-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614085#Comment_119614085

As do the Scots

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614796#Comment_119614796

I mean, imagine invoking Paisley and the Spectator and thinking you'd be taken seriously on Scottish independence.

murphaph · 14-09-2022 8:26am

The citizenship and currency issues are at least complete red herrings. The Free State and later the Republic kept the Punt pegged to Sterling for over 50 years after independence. Citizenship only became an issue when Ireland declared itself a Republic really. It would take a generation to resolve and would be slowly phased in. Everyone would remain a British citizen at independence. Only those born after may not be, but the likelihood is, the first generation would at least also be considered British citizens and in any case the CTA is almost certainly going to remain as is. Sure the English have lost FoM in enough of Europe....are they really going to opt to cut themselves off from Scotland and Ireland too.

Grassey · 14-09-2022 9:36am

are they really going to opt to cut themselves off from Scotland and Ireland too.

One can dream 🤣🤣🤣

Sam Russell · 14-09-2022 9:45am

Look, following a vote for independence, the transition would follow the roadmap that we followed, but over a much shorter time frame.

The continuance of the CTA would be a given. I cannot see any point in even considering it. Who benefits from changing it?

The continuance of most 'British' institutions would continue - probably for a generation. I am thinking of the BBC, the monarchy, the British Armed forces and defence setups.

The North Sea could be an issue - fishing, oil and gas, wind farms.

The postal system is covered by international norms, but privatised in the UK - I would see Scotland reverting that to state ownership. NHS would continue as is, with reciprocal access.

Scottish Rail is already separate. Scottish Police is also separate.

The border is a complete non-issue. There are few crossings, and nobody lives in the immediate vicinity. The NI border goes through farms and houses.

The big issues would be taxation and control of the economy. The negotiations would trundle on and hit rocky patches on assets and debt portioning. Faslane would be one card for Scotland to play, while the Westminster negotiators would try all sorts of dirty tricks.

Money is the root of all nationalism.

Muahahaha · 14-09-2022 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614289#Comment_119614289

yeah it seems there is not that many people crossing the border daily to go to work unlike NI.

Still though if it would eventually be an EU border the transit of goods like food from England to Scotland wouldnt be as seamless as it is now. If the big supermarkets all have their main distribution centres in the south a border has the potential to push food prices in a Tesco in Scotland higher than what the same items are in a Tesco in England. There would be a cost to Scottish consumers. They would also be going from a UK market of 60 million to an independent market of 5.5m and we know here in Ireland how we pay higher prices for everything from food to broadband to all sorts of consumer goods becasue we are a small market. Independence has the potential to push the prices of everything there up by 10 or 15% at least until they get new supply chains to the EU but even then many services like broadband and mobile will be within Scotlands borders only and becasue its a smaller market they will end up paying more than they do now with the benefit of a much larger UK market.

You'd also wonder what games a Tory govt could play with such a border, the NIP situation proves that they cannot be trusted to abide by international treaties and they will use a border as a political tool. It wouldnt surprise me at all for them to use that border to put pressure on an independent Scotland in the same way as they are always accusing the French of doing at Calais. They could purposely under resource the English side of the border to create queues and undermine Scottish tourism from English holiday makers. I could absolutely see a Tory govt. doing that, it would typical of the way they carry on.

A Dub in Glasgo · 18-09-2022 9:23am

Eight years today since the people in Scotland bottled it

Sturgeon has been First Minister for almost all those eight years and she has barely moved independence forward

https://twitter.com/indyposterboy/status/1571412989449801728

pixelburp · 18-09-2022 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633033#Comment_119633033

I dunno. I think I disagree; she has steered the country as close to a sovereign nation as devolution has allowed. Made some small but singular gestures that grabbed headlines (like the sanitary products initiative, highlighting period poverty), and by and large normalised the idea of Scotland: A Nation. The pandemic emphasised that with specifically Scottish decisions IIRC? (Why does that already feel like a lifetime ago)

Probably helped that your equivalent south of the border has been one to the more venal generations of Tory.

All of it means that if someone like Lord Frost's did come along and roll back devolution, as he had threatened? Scots wouldn't have been complacent about its own agency and separate course, they'd have lived what they were to lose.

A lot of independence movements are sudden shocks; boom, now form a government. Congrats you have no money. Feels like Sturgeons tack is towards a continuance, rather than one of sudden change.

ancapailldorcha · 18-09-2022 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633033#Comment_119633033

How is she supposed to move independence forward, exactly? Spain has made it clear that it would oppose Scottish accession unless it's done within the confines of the British constitution. In the meantime, Scotland has other matters to contend with, as Pixelburp has shown.

Sam Russell · 18-09-2022 10:12am

Scottish independence can only be achieved (without insurrection and violence) by the agreement of the British Gov or the British Supreme Court.

Following a positive vote in a referendum, a negotiated settlement on financial repercussions of independence and the resulting relationship between the rUK and Scotland is inevitable. It is only after this agreement and transition period would accession to the EU or EEA become relevant.

There is no way Spain would be in a position to veto an independent Scotland from joining the EU, as an independent Scotland without the agreement of the rUK is unthinkable.

Scottish independence

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