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Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,141 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,442 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,442 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Enoch is in the big house for refusing to obey a court order.

    All the waffle and faff around here won’t change that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's called dead-naming, and yes it is a very big deal to a trans or non-binary person.

    What is the impact of ‘deadnaming’ someone?

    • Not only is ‘deadnaming’ disrespectful to the transgender person, it also ‘outs’ them to anyone else in the conversation who may not be aware of their transition.
    • The decision to be open about your gender identity is not an easy one for many people and when others don’t accept it, it can lead to a lot of stress for the person involved.
    • It can contribute to transphobia leaving the person open to bullying, discrimination or harassment.


    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid




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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Maybe, if I was being charitable, I would say self promotion isn't the number one reason, but I have to say the more I hear of them - and they've been featuring in media stories and court cases that I can remember reading about for years at this stage - the more I'm struck by their utter disingenuousness.

    In every incident I can recall involving one of the family members there's always some fundamental untruth: a lie, a deliberate mischaracterisation of their own behaviour, or an omission of key details that would place them in a less than favourable light.

    If they were fundamentalists who solely saw things in black and white, well, I still wouldn't agree with just about anything with them, but I'd concede that they're honest and steadfast in their own particular way.

    But that's never the case with the Burkes. They are well able to lie and deliberately misrepresent things, which really makes me doubt their fundamental sincerity.

    Even in the liveline clip I posted earlier - it's a small example but it tells a lot - Martina Burke tries to portray herself as a small concerned nobody with no connection to any campaign etc, even going as far as to say that she's never "lifted the phone" to talk to anyone about the marraige debate. That is a great big whopping lie. No mention that she's the matriarch of a pressure group that seems to consist of entirely her own family - Just a little ordinary concerned citizen. When Enoch appears, both refuse to answer the question about whether they're related or not, it's actually laughable.

    And if you go back there's examples throughout their scrapes: Taking NUIG to court, but being less than truthful about what they did with college funds that they received; taking Arthur Cox to court, but being less than forthcoming about the 90k received and gladly kept as a payout - if you go back and look, every time, in every case, they've been caught flat out lying or deliberately leaving something out.

    Do I think they believe all that they say? Yes, I'm sure they do and probably much worse beside. But I think they're cynical too and will lie without any qualm if necessary. Which I have to say makes them even more worthy of contempt in my eyes than the beliefs they hold.

    Post edited by Arghus on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People are living through incredible pain everywhere - bereavement, serious illness, surviving trauma and abuse, war... if some folk get that upset over what was their life being mentioned, they need intensive therapy and to be taught coping skills.

    I would never deliberately deadname a trans person I'm talking to if I knew their past, but people make mistakes. And as for those in the public eye, and the expectation to act as though their past never happened (like Elliott Page playing a pregnant girl in Juno, and a teenage girl who takes an online predator hostage in Hard Candy... or Caitlyn Jenner winning a men's Olympics event)? It's preposterous.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you think coming to the realisation that you are trans or non-binary is easy or painless? Or that having come to that realisation, that coming out and telling your friends, family, (schoolmates) is easy?

    Who are you, or anyone else, to decide that is lesser or insignificant in comparison to someone else's pain or trauma?

    If you had read the article I linked too, in the first paragraph one of the first things they say is that others will make honest mistakes out if force of habit at first, so it is to be expected.

    But that's not what dead naming is. Dead naming is deliberate, and refusal to use a trans person or non-binary person's name of choice. Or doing so repeatedly. And that can be a source of incredible pain and trauma for a trans or non-binary person.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    very very few activists on the religious right are any different ime


    what is it again.....by their works shall ye know them...



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Also have a habit of ignoring a few of the commandments that they are supposed to live their life by.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,721 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    They call it "mental reservation" - Lying for Jeebus. As practised and approved by the catholic hierarchy...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    A river in Germany or a word with a missing letter.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I noticed that. A friend's kid had a friend called Olivia, despite being a boy. Only when it was writted down did I catch on that it was the French form of Olivier.

    After that, we all started calling him Larry, so no idea who's point I'm trying to make here...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    That someone as educated as Enoch Burke could hold such stupid, truculent far right views .. and even go to prison for them .. beggars belief .. what has the world come to ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Didn't know much about these clowns before all the recent hoo ha, but sweet jesus that was a painful listen. What a shrill pair of arses they are. The smoke screen of "legality" is a very poor shield for the fact that image just went against their religious views and they're ridiculously afraid to simply say that, not to mention their bizarre reluctance to say whether they were related or not. A penny to anyone's pound that they wouldn't have had any issue if the mural was something that they agreed with.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Having an alternative opinion is fine and is the sort of the point of a debate/discussion.

    However when a poster dances around and plays the "Tucker Carlson" role - "I'm just asking a question" , "I don't really understand all this" , "Can someone explain to me what the issue is here?".

    Then at best they are being disingenuous , at worst it's out and out trolling.

    And it's definitely trolling when their "questions" are answered but they still roll back with the "I'm still not really seeing the issue here, can someone explain why this is a problem?" angle.

    By all means have an alternative view point , but also have the conviction to own it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

    I think its pretty obvious to anyone who has been reading, which posters are actually being disingenuous in this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,209 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I went to a catholic school where religion was taught as just Catholicism. We were told what we should be thinking as Catholics. We were never encouraged to debate or told it was ok to hold an opposing view. Being gay was wrong. Abortion was wrong. Leaving the catholic church was wrong. It was indoctrination. My religion teachers were all priests. And I'm sure it's still the exact same there today.

    There should be no religion classes like that in school. Sure, study religions (as in plural) in school but don't indoctrinate children. Religions don't offer lessons in morality. having lessons in philosophy and civics teach about morality but religions only have their extremely blinkered view.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Mr Burke returns to court this morning.

    Reading between the lines imo it sounds like the duty judge will kick for touch and set a date for hearing his arguments when High Court is fully back from holidays. Any rejection of his arguments today will probably mean attempted appeal to Supreme Court.

    On the other hand judge may feel that is going to happen anyway and a definitive rejection there would help to end this part of the saga.

    On we go.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,305 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    But not to someone whose former husband was still alive!



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,442 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Aah ….get it now….. same as ‘quawter’, you don’t bother with the ‘r’.

    Got it…..thanks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Presumably the school (or the Department of Education) have stopped paying him his salary now that he has decided to take an (unsanctioned) extended vacation in chokey so is no longer available to perform the pedagogular duties for which he was being paid.

    Wonder how he'll manage to pay the costs of these High Court actions if the beak decides that he's liable for both sides' costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,415 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    he was suspended with pay. and he was found liable for the schools costs at one of the hearings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid



    Why study religions in school at all? I mean, sure, study religions as part of some other syllabus, by all means - history, maybe, or a module in CSPE, a passing mention in geography along the lines of "the major religions in the UK are x, y and z and 35% have no religion" or something - but devoting a whole class to it every week, in this day and age? Madness, and completely out of proportion to the space it fills in most peoples' lives or heads, compared to, say, football, pop culture, music, or whatever you're having yourself.

    As for the full-scale indoctrination that goes on in primary schools here, when kids should be learning, but are instead preparing for masses, going to masses and singing at other peoples' masses, when there's no alternative for most people - it's a disgrace! (sorry, rant over)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Martina : "if you do something clever Enoch, you'll get the same amount of media attention"

    Indeed......

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I would doubt it - I'd say they are still paying him as per the rules of his suspension.

    Don't think they'd legally be able to stop paying him until such time as they hold the hearing and were actually to formally dismiss him.

    As it stands , he is currently liable for all costs in relation to the injunction , but not sure if that applies to his latest cases, neither of which directly target the injunction itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭SnazzyPig


    My favourite word to describe the vast majority of politicians I have seen interviewed on a given subject.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,721 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    No he's still suspended with pay afaik pending the disciplinary hearing.

    In theory they could probably claim they gave him an opportunity to have a disciplinary hearing and hold it in absentia, it's not their fault he didn't turn up, but they really need to have their i's dotted and t's crossed on this one so they'll postpone it, at least for now, but presumably that situation can't hold indefinitely either.

    Highlights the ludicrous situation in education where Dept. of Education (i.e., us) pays the wages but is not the employer and doesn't hire and doesn't fire.

    The patronage system is from the 19th century and needs to go.

    Even before the national school system was established in the early 19th century it was recognised that sectarian education was wrong, the national school system was never meant to be split along denominational lines but successive British and Irish administrations caved in to pressure from the churches.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,721 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    But not to someone whose former husband was still alive!

    Forgive me for not keeping up with the minutiae of some British toff's private life 😋

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



This discussion has been closed.
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