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Property and inheritance taxes should be raised, says State’s commission on tax and welfare

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  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Drog79


    We're all to be happy having nothing.

    You know this makes me so angry coming from a working class family, where neither parent had past primary education. Years of hard work and continuous learning into adulthood, exhaustion and then thousands disappearing from both our payslips each month. That's ok, it goes towards all the everyday infrastructure of the country.

    But at the end we're not to want our own children to be entitled to what we bought after tax. Absolute farce of a country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,049 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Not only do foreign REITs not pay any corporate tax on profits, they don't pay any CGT either. Ireland is once again being milked by wealthy German investors while there are calls from the public sector socialists to increase taxes on people actually living in Ireland to compensate for the incredible tax breaks and largese so freely offered to wealthy foreigners.



  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Drog79


    Absolutely crazy stuff going on. There will be some shenanigans if this is attempted when the lowest and highest rungs of society are getting off Scot free.

    Do the government think the average private worker is a total idiot? I mean none of us want to move tbh, but Switz, jersey and Malta looking nicer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,049 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I want to move to NZ. I know, don't let the door hit me in the face on the way out...



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,384 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Please note that REIT profits must be paid out to shareholders, where they are taxed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,522 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    There is 100% exemption from CAT for inheriting a family home where both are actually living in it as their main home before the inheritance



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,522 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Hmm. Perhaps you would advocate for a higher income tax then so that we can allow the likes of your man who got the windfall of 30 million from selling Thornton Hall should be able to pass it on tax free to whoever he wanted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Ellie2008


    The super rich with plenty of cash to spare will take legal & tax advice, sets up trusts etc and find a way to pass it on.

    Like most tax increases the middle would be hit the hardest. Not that I think lower earners should be hit any harder.

    I don’t think it’s going to happen anyways, but the rules have already changed significantly over the past ten years or so.

    Enough is enough. No more taxes without spending cuts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Why don't your children buy their own stuff after tax, just like you did?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭dashoonage


    The way things are going they will have nothing left after tax to buy stuff with anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The Tax commission also want rid of health insurance relief and reduced rates of VAT. Oh and increase DIRT on saving to the marginal rate of tax. Absolutely looking to hammer the middle income bracket yet again.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭Mav11


    The Shinners have now come out and said that they will reduce the inheritance threshold to €300k and raise the rate to 36%. So it would appear that their policy is now a free foreva-home for everyone and tax the boll1x of everybody else who bothers to get off their ar*se to go out and provide for their families!

    That'll work well!



  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Drog79


    Because I'd like to disperse my hard earned assets how I see fit, and benefit my children. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Drog79


    Not the point who will pay when I'm gone.I've already paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭Economics101


    More leaks about the Commission on Taxation and Welfare: remove tax relief from health insurance, eliminate many or most lower rates of VAT. The sheer lack of political judgement from these muppets is staggering:




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,959 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I’ve already paid income tax on my salary. Can I use that as an excuse not to pay VAT in shops?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Your employer has already paid tax on the money they pay you.

    Your employer's customers have already paid tax on the money they spend with the.

    Their employers, in turn, have already paid tax on the money used to pay them.

    All money is taxed multiple times.

    Why should the cycle suddenly stop with people inheriting or getting gifts for free?



  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Drog79


    Because most people don't have the kind of resources all the businesses in your examples mention.

    They also typically don't have the kind of business tax free goodies available either. Director pensions, shares and on and on.

    Most people have very limited lifetime tax planning available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭Nermal



    The commission is quite the roll call of civil servants, quango heads and other assorted government sucklings.

    You'll find academics, representatives from Revenue and the DSP, Enterprise Ireland, the European Commission, the eco-weenies, IBEC, a state-funded economist and a trade union nominee.

    You'll find some people from the 'tax industry', who will happily put their name to anything so long as it doesn't make tax compliance any simpler.

    I found only one member who I'd call wholely private sector. She's set up a dating agency. Her new startup's website is more or less a begging letter looking for investment.

    Fresh ideas don't sprout from places like this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Ellie2008


    That’s very interesting information. Squeeze middle Ireland further isn’t novel.

    The rich can wander into the swish offices of the many many tax professionals in Ireland or live abroad for a time when they sell a large asset. I know someone doing the latter currently - born in Ireland, lived in Ireland his entire life, all his kids were educated here, his wife cancer was cured here. But he sells his business and he doesn’t want to be Irish tax resident. He is not alone as we know.

    Like most people, I pay tax left, right and centre. And I sit with my kids in overcrowded A&Es and read about the National Children’s Hospital disaster. I neither have the time or the money to set up tax avoidance schemes.

    The really vulnerable people in this country including those with medical needs don’t see to be able to access adequate assistance. All while our public sector are paid extremely well proportionally and have access to pension benefit thats don’t exist in the profit making sector.

    I wouldn’t be in favour of increasing any tax right now without much greater accountability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Well to start let the public sector cover the full cost of their own pensions there is a nice whack of cash. We need to go through large orgs in the public sector route and branch and find out where the expense is case in point the HSE no matter how much is thrown it always seems in disarray, then go through the welfare and cut out those who are milking the system and lets be clear its not just an increase in inheritance tax its any additional taxation at all. We pay more than enough for a decent service - which we dont get in a lot of areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    What's this 'we have known' nonsense? This country, as in the times of the PAYE protests of the early 80s, have a very low higher rate. This money will be applied to variously the 'disadvantaged' aka professional welfarers who already have a nearly free home from Local Authorities, the insane levels of in migration where said migrants can reasonably expect a free home while an Irish man dies on the streets (and it is not racist to note that, this country has a broken housing and rental market and cannot cope with that), plus green / renewable energy grifters (everyone paying a leccy bill pays for that stuff which isn't economic without taxpayer funded subsidy), and the vast number of state funded NGOs which are mostly make work for useless do gooders, plus the bottomless black hole which is the filing cabinet dependent HSE (waiting lists are a horror but it needs radical reform to deal with its inefficiency).

    By the by the number of TDs needs to be cut to 100 (it would cut emissions to near zero without all the hot air and farting from them) and the money saved could be applied to restoring UDCs to towns, which are falling into ruin. Dick Roche's reform of local government has been a disaster.

    edit: MrMusician18 and others who favour these measures will also benefit from them, so 300 plus quid a week for 'artists' and God knows how much for all these quango managers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I would rather him and his kids getting the money than the state getting it and p1ssing it away. They cant be trusted with it. No more additional taxes until our spend is brought under control



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭Economics101


    More from the Tax Commission:

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/tax/tax-on-pizzas-and-other-processed-foods-and-new-electricity-charge-recommended-by-tax-commission-41988764.html

    Taxes on Pizzas and electricity FFS. Completely clueless on the likely reaction to these proposals.

    And with reference to an earlier post, the Commission wants and end to the tax relief on health insurance, arguing that Slaintecare will largely eliminate the need for it anyhow. Implying that public policy on healthcare will be such a brilliant success is the funniest thing since someone said pigs would fly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The report is published.

    Get ready to be ridden even more for tax in the future.

    They want to increase DIRT on interest to the marginal rate and apply USC to it also. They also want to minimize the tax free lump sum people can take from their own private pensions at retirement with anything over that subject to the marginal rate - pensions people contributed to for decades. They want TRS on private health care gone. There's plenty more as well.

    Daylight robbery of working people trying to better themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Leo complaining about the output of a committee set up and staffed by his colleage, Paschal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,384 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Key message no. 3:

    It is necessary to broaden the tax base so as to limit the need for increases in tax rates and to secure the sustainability of the taxation system against future challenges. This will entail widening the base within taxheads and increasing the yield from taxes which are least distortionary, promote environmental goals and enhance the overall progressivity of the system. The balance of taxation needs to shift away from taxes on labour and towards taxes on capital, wealth and consumption. A strengthening of the PRSI system is also required. Over-reliance on Corporation Tax receipts to narrow the tax base or increase public spending needs to be curtailed.


    I broadly agree with this, although I would like to see more detail on how income taxes might be reduced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,384 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Key message 4:

    While personal taxes are highly progressive, the exclusion of large numbers of individuals from the personal tax system is becoming increasingly problematic from a fiscal sustainability and reciprocity perspective, which increases vulnerabilities. The priority for reform in this area is in respect of PRSI.

    I agree with this.


    Key messages 7 and 8:

    A Site Value Tax (SVT) applicable to all land that is not subject to the Local Property Tax (LPT) should be introduced, replacing the existing system of Commercial Rates. There should be differential treatment in the application of SVT to agricultural land.

    LPT is a well-functioning tax, the yield from which should be increased materially. The Commission recommends that tax incentives should not be used in order to stimulate the supply of housing.


    Again, I agree, as property and land taxes make more sense than income taxes, but I want to see how income taxes will be reduced.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,384 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Chapter 7 will not be popular!!

    Chapter 7: Taxes on Capital and Wealth

    7.1 The Commission recommends, on horizontal equity grounds, that the transfer of assets on a death is treated as a disposal for Capital Gains Tax purposes. The Capital Gains Tax treatment of assets transferred during a lifetime in terms of tax payable, exemptions and reliefs available should also apply to assets transferred on a death.

    7.2 The Commission recommends that the Capital Gains Tax Principal Private Residence Relief should be restricted over time.

    7.3 The Commission recommends the introduction of a lifetime limit on all disposals of businesses and farms to children that qualify for Retirement Relief.

    7.4 The Commission recommends substantially reducing the Capital Acquisitions Tax Group A threshold, bringing the Group A threshold closer to the Group B and Group C thresholds. Furthermore, the Commission recommends that the reporting requirements relating to the utilisation of group thresholds be strengthened.

    7.5 The Commission recommends that the Group B relationship thresholds for Capital Acquisitions Tax should apply to a foster child in the same manner that would have been applicable if the child in question was, in law, a child of his or her foster parents.

    7.6 The Commission recommends that the level of Agricultural and Business Relief available for Capital Acquisitions Tax be reduced and that the qualifying conditions for both reliefs be amended to incentivise, and ensure active participation in the farm or business by the recipient.

    7.7 The Commission recommends that a modest charge should be applied to gifts and inheritances generally.



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