Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

El_Duderino 09 · 14-09-2022 1:10pm

I known its not cool to like this tour. But I think that looks like an exciting squad. It's probably not perfect, but if they can get some players through the system to become top pros, it's a great move.

phog · 14-09-2022 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616931#Comment_119616931

I think those who have a dislike for the tour it's around the timing rather than having an emerging Ireland tour/squad

Must love hardship · 14-09-2022 1:14pm

Interesting squad.

No one with more than 2 caps brought.

Outhalf is always an interesting one.

No Ben healy or Harry Byrne.

starkid · 14-09-2022 1:16pm

Daft tour, daft squad. a few players wasting their time there and being pulled out of settled positions in active competitions. just a stupid tour all around, one where the main coach won't even be there.

Good to see Illo there. its about time Irish rugby started to reflect the changing demographics.

bringing Frisch in is a bit of a slap in the face to better players as well.

as always a weird and inconcsistent selection

RichieRich_89 · 14-09-2022 1:17pm

Too many Munster players. The last 10 years has told us that Munster don't produce first XXIII internationals, so what's the point in selecting so many if the aim is to develop future Ireland players?

stephen_n · 14-09-2022 1:20pm

Interesting squad, looks definitely more focused on after RWC 23 than providing players who will be involved there. It doesn’t look like it will massively impact on the URC at all. Especially given the full internationals will be available. If anything it will actually improve the quality of players available in the early season. Will give the coaches good time with some young players and figure out their work on’s.

awec · 14-09-2022 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616981#Comment_119616981

Baloucoune, McIlroy, Moore, Doak, Reid and Izuchukwu for Ulster were all likely to get significant, if not constant URC game time, so I disagree this is going to have no URC impact. These aren't nothing / nobody players.

That is a lot of players for Ulster to lose for this junket, and I haven't even bothered to look at the other provinces yet.

Paul Smeenus · 14-09-2022 1:24pm

Emerging Ireland Squad – Toyota Challenge 2022

Backs (15)

Robert Baloucoune (Ulster/Enniskillen)*

Caolin Blade (Connacht/Galwegians)*

Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)

Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Constitution)*

Nathan Doak (Ulster/Banbridge)

Jake Flannery (Ulster/Shannon)

Antoine Frisch (Munster)

Ciaran Frawley (Leinster/UCD)

Michael McDonald (Ulster)

Ethan McIlroy (Ulster/Queens RFC)

Stewart Moore (Ulster/Malone)

Chay Mullins (Connacht/IQ Rugby)

Calvin Nash (Munster/Young Munster)

Jamie Osbourne (Leinster/Naas)

Andrew Smith (Leinster/Clontarf)

Forwards (20)

Tom Ahern (Munster/Shannon)

Diarmuid Barron (Munster/Garryowen)

Tom Clarkson (Leinster/Dublin University)

James Culhane (Leinster/UCD)

Max Deegan (Leinster/Lansdowne)*

Brian Deeny (Leinster/Clontarf)

John Hodnett (Munster/UCC)

Sam Illo (Connacht)

Cormac Izuchukwu (Ulster/Ballynahinch)

Alex Kendellen (Munster/UCC)

Joe McCarthy (Leinster/Dublin University)

Michael Milne (Leinster/UCD)

Scott Penny (Leinster/UCD)

Cian Prendergast (Connacht)

Callum Reid (Ulster/Banbridge)

Roman Salonoa (Munster/Shannon)

Alex Soroka (Leinster/Clontarf)

Tom Stewart (Ulster/Ballynahinch)

Dylan Tierney-Martin (Connacht/Corinthians)

Josh Wycherley (Munster/Young Munster)

Deramore · 14-09-2022 1:28pm

Baloucoune, McIlroy, Moore, Doak, Reid and Izuchukwu are all much better off getting time against the Griquas rather then Leinster on September 30? Aye right

stephen_n · 14-09-2022 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616995#Comment_119616995

You have Cooney, McCloskey, Hume and Treadwell. Hardly weakening the squad is it?

sydthebeat · 14-09-2022 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616712#Comment_119616712

i did say "Men"

PMC83 · 14-09-2022 1:32pm

TBH its happening so we may as well sit back and enjoy!

awec · 14-09-2022 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617044#Comment_119617044

Of course it's weakening the squad. You're taking important players out of the wider squad, it is by definition weakening it.

stephen_n · 14-09-2022 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617030#Comment_119617030

Hate to have to point this out but experience with Ireland over experience with Ulster is massively more important than the opposition. Especially compared to a probable bench spot at most against Leinster for a lot of those players.

awec · 14-09-2022 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617030#Comment_119617030

I'm actually a bit mortified for Baloucoune. He's on the edge of the senior squad and he's being sent to South Africa to play Currie Cup teams, it's embarrassing.

Deegan is exactly the same.

aloooof · 14-09-2022 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616924#Comment_119616924

As someone who was skeptical / critical of the tour, that's probably as good a squad as I would've hoped for; I think they've pitched it at the right level of player.

With my Munster hat on tho, losing say Barron, Josh Wycherly and Salanoa from the front-row options isn't ideal but is probably manageable. Just glad to see the likes of, say, Casey not touring.

stephen_n · 14-09-2022 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617055#Comment_119617055

I didn’t realize knock out rugby occurred in October. Maybe I should say it will have no material impact on results. It does not significantly weaken Ulster given the timing and the games it covers. It will have little or no impact on the games being played.

As usual you would just like to focus on a negative and amplify it till nothing else exists in your mind.

TRC10 · 14-09-2022 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617059#Comment_119617059

Then why spend a lot of money taking them to South Africa?

aloooof · 14-09-2022 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617045#Comment_119617045

You did, but I don't think anyone up to that point of the conversation meant U20's at all.

Leaving that out is at least a little bit misleading.

RichieRich_89 · 14-09-2022 1:44pm

Loosehead: Josh Wycherley, Michael Milne, Callum Reid

Hooker: Diarmuid Barron, Tom Stewart, Dylan Tierney-Martin

Tighthead: Thomas Clarkson, Roman Salanoa, Sam Illo

Lock: Joe McCarthy, Thomas Ahern, Cormac Izuchukwu, Brian Deeny

Blindside: Cian Prendergast, Alexis Soroka

Openside: Scott Penny, Alex Kendellen, John Hodnett

No. 8: Max Deegan, James Culhane

Scrumhalf: Caolin Blade, Nathan Doak, Michael McDonald

Outhalf: Ciarán Frawley, Jack Crowley, Jake Flannery

Left Wing: Andrew Smith, Chay Mullins

Inside Centre: Stewart Moore, Antoine Frisch

Outside Centre: Shane Daly

Right Wing: Robert Baloucoune, Calvin Nash

Fullback: Ethan McIlroy, Jamie Osborne

Not sure which wing Mullins plays more. I wouldn't be surprised to see Osborne at 13.

aloooof · 14-09-2022 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616965#Comment_119616965

I think you have this exactly backwards, Richie; the fact 10 players are included is an indication their development pathways have been much improved in the last 10 years.

Or, put another way, say, Dave Foley not becoming a first XXIII international has zero bearing on whether Thomas Ahern can become one.

(But I also think you know exactly what you're at here ;) )

awec · 14-09-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617090#Comment_119617090

What does knockout rugby have to do with it? It's the league.

The idea that taking 6 first team players away has no material impact makes no sense at all to me. If these lads were all out injured we'd be talking about the injury issues affecting the squad, but apparently because they're going on a junket their absence is actually irrelevant and of no consequence.

Izuchukwu was out for all of last season and was missed by Ulster, but supposedly his absence now is of little or no impact.

TRC10 · 14-09-2022 1:52pm

The squad is definitely closer to what I thought it would be, than the side that played v the Maori. A lot of the names are the sort of names I'd have wanted to see. Young players with big potential, who are unlikely to see a lot of game time for their province. Guys like Milne, Illo, Izuchukwu, Culhane, Crowley, etc.

However there are a few names that make no sense to me. Baloucoune being there is comical. He is one of the first names on the Ulster team sheet, one of their best players and arguably a starter for Ireland when he's fit. What he will gain from being pulled out of completive URC rugby and made to play against Currie Cup sides is beyond me. It's nonsensical. Likewise Doak, who there's a good chance will be Ulster's starting 9 this season. Same goes for Cian Prendergast. One of Connacht's best players, who would definitely be starting URC games but for this tour. Not to mention, his selection really does f*ck Connacht over.

As I said before, if they were playing against a South Africa "A" side, I'd be more in favour of this tour (even if the timing was still all wrong). But they're playing against sub-URC dross. If the opposition doesn't matter, as some have said, then why bother taking them to South Africa in the first place?

For the first time in years, we actually might have the decent, competitive league for the provinces to play in, that we've been crying out for. But the very second that happens, the IRFU go and sh*t all over it with this farce of a tour.

aloooof · 14-09-2022 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617090#Comment_119617090

Maybe I should say it will have no material impact on results.

I'm not sure you can say that in any way definitively tho, stephen. The margins can be small in some games. And, judging by the end of last season, the margins can be small towards getting a home knock-out game.

For example, in the last round of the regular season, Stormers got a try on the 80th minute, which got them 2nd spot and a home QF and then SF vs Ulster. Where they then scored a try on the 85th minute of the game, and conversion on 87th to beat Ulster.

Otherwise Ulster would've been at home to everyone but Leinster. That's a material difference. So I can absolutely understand why Ulster fans might be annoyed to be missing those players.

TRC10 · 14-09-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616960#Comment_119616960

Good to see Illo there. its about time Irish rugby started to reflect the changing demographics.

moron

Wegians89 · 14-09-2022 1:58pm

Best 15 something like:

wycherley Barron clarkson

mccarthy ahern

prendergast kendellen deegan

blade frawley

Moore Daly

mcilroy Osborne baloucoune

Former Former Former · 14-09-2022 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617115#Comment_119617115

Dave Foley not becoming an international

Has my 8-year campaign to have Dave Foley stripped of his caps finally been successful?! Huzzah!

Dubinusa · 14-09-2022 2:05pm

I don't know if it's a good idea or not. Lads like Soroka and Kendellen will probably benifit. I think Deegan is being wasted on this tour, as is Doak and Balacoune.

Andrew Smith is a strange call! No senior appearances! Calvin Nash, is not going to learn much on this tour. He may never get an international cap!

aloooof · 14-09-2022 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617254#Comment_119617254

Ah ya, but to be fair, I was responding to Richie's post about:

...first XXIII internationals

Even with his MOTM award against Georgia, Dave Foley was never in that category.

(And post edited to reflect same).

lawrencesummers · 14-09-2022 2:13pm

You have to wonder what Mike Haley has done to upset so many people apple carts.

He has been a very solid FB for munster for a few seasons now and cant get any look in at irish level, hes a far better player than shane daly, as well as a few others

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Emerging Ireland Squad – Toyota Challenge 2022