Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

14-09-2022 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616936#Comment_119616936

I could be mistaken but I think today is about

“The teacher is set to argue there is no lawful basis to a decision by Wilson’s Hospital School to place him on administrative leave.”

“However, Mr Justice Conor Dignam ruled on Monday that only his application for an injunction against his suspension would be heard.”

“The teacher is due to be brought to the court from Mountjoy Prison in time for a hearing at 2pm today where a judge will be asked to consider granting an injunction restraining the school from continuing his suspension.”

From the article.

This link is probably more suitable to the legal forum but it gives a good overview:

https://employmentrightsadvice.ie/employer/regulation-procedures/policies/suspending-an-employee

amdublin · 14-09-2022 2:25pm

My God what a fool. Just go along with the terms of the injunction(don't go to the school), while arguing your case = no prison

But I guess he can't be a martyr for the cause doing it that way

14-09-2022 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617002#Comment_119617002

Based on the content in that link, it would seem like suspension was the correct action. Specifically where it states "that suspension would be justified in the following circumstances:

To prevent repetition of the conduct complained of;
To prevent interference with evidence;
To protect individuals at risk from such conduct; or
To protect the employer’s business and reputation"

1 & 3 would definitely seem to apply here

14-09-2022 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617509#Comment_119617509

and 4

Hotblack Desiato · 14-09-2022 2:37pm

@Diespies Yes that appears to be the case. An injunction against the injunction, in effect 😉 I originally thought it was just him getting hauled back in to give him a chance to purge his contempt (do they still keep doing that, absent of any indication from the person concerned that they intend to purge their contempt?)

BTW it's not a good look for a law firm to set up a domain and website that makes them look like they're some sort of State body.

14-09-2022 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617543#Comment_119617543

The link is an overview and it has to be front and centre that Mr Burke’s workplace is a school where Number 3 of those conditions would, I expect, carry much more weight than some people in this sorry spectacle realise.

14-09-2022 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616502#Comment_119616502

He was suspended with pay when he was a free man. He's now a prisoner of the State and likely to remain there for the next 40 years (hopefully). Hence he's not in a position to perform his duties as a (suspended) teacher so the State shouldn't be paying him a salary. (I'm genuinely surprised that I needed to explain this to you.)

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2022 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617686#Comment_119617686

You are not explaining anything to me. You are telling me what you think should happen.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-09-2022 3:10pm

When he was suspended but not imprisoned he wasn't in a position to perform his duties either, so that hasn't changed.

Quin_Dub · 14-09-2022 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617509#Comment_119617509

1,3 and 4 Definitely apply in this case.

For 1 - His repeated repetition of his "opinions" apply as does his continued arrival at the school every day , leading to an Injunction.

For 3 - Again, his repeated outbursts apply here in terms of the child at the centre of this

And for 4 - His "sit-ins" in the classroom directly impact the ability of the school to carry out its "business" , in this case teaching children and using that room.

I think the school are well and truly covered here

That , along with Enoch himself saying in Court already that he has no intention of adhering to either the Injunction , the underlying suspension or the original directive from the school would suggest that his appeal of the suspension is a complete non-runner.

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119607025#Comment_119607025

Do you have any idea of what the median income is in this country?

There is reason why the vast majority of schools are not fee-paying - and that is the low income that most people "enjoy".

If you feel that "many people" can afford €10k p.a. on a single child's education, I suggest that you are mixing with the richest 5%-10% of people in the country. The elite and their best-paid servants.

And, BTW, only a subset of that 10% would be driving cars valued at €100k. Talk about a ridiculous argument!

14-09-2022 4:12pm

Going on media reports on Twitter and what is being said in court today Mr Burke could wend his way to the ECHR. It’s being reported that he’s going on religious expression grounds among others. Irish courts will be aware of the French hijab judgement at the ECHR so they may head him off at the pass with reference to that. (Religious rights subordinated to “living together”)

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605926#Comment_119605926

I don't think he'd be able to move the main focus of the process onto the religious aspect, but he may be able to use that comment by the judge to force a discussion of the matter.

If successful in this, I would expect that most of his ammunition would be expended on that particular aspect; as I assume he is intellectually capable of understanding that he is not going to win his legal case.

This may be unimportant to him, as he seems to be a man with a mission, and his mission is to spread the word, as understood by himself.

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606055#Comment_119606055

some people still seem to think that this **** ended up in prison because of anything other than

I don't know why you need to insult Burke in this way. I'm sure it says something about yourself, and that is hardly positive.

amdublin · 14-09-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618045#Comment_119618045

QUOTE "I don't know why you need to insult Burke in this way. I'm sure it says something about yourself, and that is hardly positive."

I think the point stands. He is in prison because of his own actions. He seems like a fool tbh, no idea why you would get offended with someone insulting him. He is an eejit to have done what he did and he and his actions deserve insult imo

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2022 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618045#Comment_119618045

I think "tool" is quite a mild word to use in reference to Burke.

Brendan Bendar · 14-09-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617445#Comment_119617445

Burkes don’t go that route , it would appear from all media reports.

Quin_Dub · 14-09-2022 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618012#Comment_119618012

Well - Yes and no.

Not everyone with a child in a Private school is an "elite" by any stretch.

Lots of people not just the "elite" , are spending 10k+ a year on Creches (figuring 800-1k per month in most places) so some people are simply rolling that cost over as they move to schools , both primary and secondary.

Or some are putting a chunk of that creche money way during the Primary school years to fund a private secondary education - I know a number of people that have done this over the years.

This isn't common place obviously, given the ratio of public to private schools , but like I said lots of non "elites" are sending their kids to private schools.

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618131#Comment_119618131

I don't agree with him any more than you do, but there's no need to put gratuitous insults up about him. Debate his actions all you like, people will be able to choose their own terms for what he is.

What I do like about the whole situation though is the opportunity it gives us to discuss the skyfairy business that the school promotes/doesn't promote; they seem to be in two minds about what CoI ethos means, if anything. Other than a generous bank account that is.

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618280#Comment_119618280

you're right, people will be able to pick their own terms for him and tool is the term I have picked.

14-09-2022 5:33pm

Seeing as my previous summary of Enoch attempts at injunctions went down so well I thought I'd do another for todays attempt by him.

What's it all about?

Todays day in court is about Enoch asking the court for an injunction against the schools original suspension and he wants the court to rule against it so that he can return to work.

Among his many beliefs, in this case, "he believes he will be released from prison and be able to return to work without having to purge his contempt if the court grants him the injunction."

Sounds like it was a family day out too with his parents, Seán and Martina, and siblings Isaac and Ammi all attending, though Enoch still chose to represent himself and not use Ammi's services. She just can't catch a break since she was sacked.

What does he want?

Mr Burke told the judge that as well as seeking an injunction halting his suspension, he was seeking declarations the suspension was contrary to various articles of the constitution relating to personal rights, freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion.

He is also seeking declarations his suspension is “unfair, unjust and unlawful” and that a report by former school principal Niamh McShane, which was a factor in his suspension, did not ascertain or present facts in a fair manner.

A further declaration is being sought that the manner in which he was suspended was contrary to a Department of Education circular.

He alleged that any conclusions reached against him as part of a disciplinary process would be “legally unsustainable”.

What were his arguments to support his case?

As regards the report done up by the principal about the various incidents where he harrassed her, Enoch again outlined his objection to her giving details on his actions, stating “Many of these findings are damaging to my personal and professional reputation,”.

As for the judges decision not to allow the other injunctions to proceed (no need as the disiplinary hearing is on hold until Enoch comes out of the joy) Enoch strongly disagreed and told the judge he wanted a response from the judge, to which the judge said he'd get it "when I'm ready".

According to his massive legal expertise, Enoch reckons "he had a strong case for the injunctions, on grounds including his rights to freedom of conscience, expression and free profession of religious belief."

What was the schools response?

Not 100% sure if this came directly from the schools representation but I'm guessing it did

The court has heard Mr Burke did not seek to challenge his suspension until last Monday, by which stage he had spent seven days in prison.

In her ruling, Ms Justice Roberts said the teacher could have challenged his suspension earlier and he was now “seeking to re-run” the argument he had made at earlier attachment and committal hearings.

What was the decision?

The court rejected his application.

The judge said Mr Burke had failed to reach necessary threshold of convincing her he had a strong chance of succeeding at a full hearing the dispute between him and his employers, Wilson’s Hospital School in Multyfarnham, Co Westmeath.

Ms Justice Eileen Roberts said this evening, Mr Burke’s application was "procedurally misconceived" but as he was a lay litigant, she would still consider it.

She said the rules of the Department of Education allowed for a teacher to be put on paid leave pending the outcome of an investigation into allegations of serious misconduct.

In the light of this, she said she was not of the view that Mr Burke’s case was likely to succeed at a full hearing.

The judge said Mr Burke was entitled to hold whatever religious beliefs he wished and it was no attack on these beliefs for the school to put him on paid administrative leave.

She said in view of his stated intention to return to school if not restrained as well as the previous high court orders, which he had not appealed, the balance of convenience favoured refusing his application for an injunction.

The judge offered him the chance, once again, to purge his contempt, to which he responded

"I cannot do that judge. I do think it a gross injustice that the plaintiff [Wilson’s Hospital] and the court is seeking to deny me my religious beliefs. I go back to jail as a law-abiding subject of the State but a subject of God first.”

The judge, yet again, clarified for Enoch "that Mr Burke was not in jail because his religious freedoms had been violated but because he had breached court orders."

Sources:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-teacher-enoch-burke-begins-legal-bid-to-halt-work-suspension-by-school-41989317.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/09/14/teacher-enoch-burke-tells-court-he-has-strong-case-for-injunctions-over-schools-disciplinary-process/

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/0914/1323395-burke-court/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-teacher-enoch-burke-sent-back-to-mountjoy-prison-after-bid-for-freedom-fails-41989689.html

BattleCorp · 14-09-2022 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617907#Comment_119617907

The suspension took place before the Injunction so I don't think your reading of number 1 is correct in this case as Burke wasn't suspended for his continual arrival at school every day. Burke's suspension was for his behaviour at the school function where he interrupted it, continually harrassed the principal to the extent that other people had to intervene.

Regarding point 3 - I think this could apply to the principal moreso than the student. Burke was confrontational with the principal and not the student as far as I'm aware. There are no reports that Burke said anything untoward to the student.

Regarding point 4, the sit-ins only happened after his suspension so they aren't relevant to why he was suspended.

I'm not sticking up for Burke by the way. I think he's a gobsh1te. But if Burke is challenging the legitimacy of his suspension in the first place, you can't use things that happened after his suspension against him in that particular argument.

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 5:35pm

He needs to insult everyone, just earlier he said another poster must have low self esteem because of what they wrote. Truly dub-meath is one of the worst posters around here, yet never gets reprimanded. Notice how quickly my posts get deleted. He’s a **** troll.

Yes, he told me that I must have low self-esteem because I used the word "elite" to describe the pupils attending schools with high fees. I'm not quite sure how he worked that one out. It seems that quite a few people here find the word elite offensive, probably because it cuts too close to the bone.

is_that_so · 14-09-2022 5:36pm

He has failed with his latest challenge and gone back to prison.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-09-2022 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618045#Comment_119618045

Completely justified to call him that, given that he's behaving like a complete one

Maybe if he was nice to other people they'd be nice to him too. It'd be worth a try...

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618242#Comment_119618242

I suspect that you have a very restricted view of what "elite" means if you think lots of people are able to afford €10k either on creche of school fees.

BTW, I also mentioned the elite's best paid servants in my post, the elite being the upper 1% plus the next 5-10% who are well-paid to look after their interests - lawyers, accountants, private clinics/hospitals etc. as well as various other smaller professions

Quin_Dub · 14-09-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618383#Comment_119618383

On 1 and 4 - Fair points , however the Judge today made reference to his stated belief that the suspension was incorrect and that he simply intended to go back to school as if nothing had happened so I think his actions after the fact have definitely coloured the decision on the validity of the original act of suspending him.

In terms of number 3 , while he definitely only directly interacted with the Principal , the child at the core of this has to be fully aware of all that has gone on and that has to have an impact on them in terms of how they think about themselves etc. so I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the child is being impacted by this whole palaver.

deirdremf · 14-09-2022 5:47pm

I wonder if I am the only one having trouble in accessing Wilson's Hospital School's website? This is the message I have been receiving for the last couple of days!

Quin_Dub · 14-09-2022 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618407#Comment_119618407

To be fair , I think everyone probably has their own interpretation of "Elite" likely closely aligned to "People who have a lot more than me".

As the old saying goes "To the blind , the one-eyed man is King".

14-09-2022 5:54pm

Back to Mountjoy. Judge Roberts throws out his case saying he can hold whatever religious beliefs he wants but the school court action is not an attack on them.

On we go.

Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

Comments

What's it all about?

What does he want?

What were his arguments to support his case?

What was the schools response?

What was the decision?