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Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    They're working as cheap labour.

    Wow didn't see that one coming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    "The professor who was on suggested we look to bring in non EU immigrants who would be prepared to sleep 3 or 4 to a room for low wages."

    Right but did he mention that the reason we want to pack tenements with cheap labour is because we are compassionate, humane people opposed to prejudice in all its forms?

    Because 'oops' if he didn't



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Is there something wrong with people who work low paid jobs, it's hardly their fault what they get paid. Not a great look there lad. Do you want to throw up your most recent P60?

    From my understanding there is many working jobs that are not pertinent to their skill set, i.e. they are better off working than not.

    It's a work ethic that may bamboozle some of our own I admit. But admirable all the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I don't blame people for taking low wages if they can't get anything else.

    Does that mean that packing people four to a room and paying them dirt is ethical? A blast of phony antiracism is meant to shut down criticism and discussion of any kind.

    This exploitation helps to drive down wages for Irish and foreigners. Formerly well-paying jobs can be turned into McJobs this way.

    You shouldn't ask me to justify myself personally because you've no clue what kind of difficulties I've had on the labour market. You're just assuming I'm in a comfortable position.

    When I was working as a construction labourer in 2018, there were illegal foreign workers on a different site 100m away who were getting paid roughly 50% of what I was being paid but of course they weren't making a fuss about it. That's your bright and shining smug "We are not racists" Ireland right there.

    Please don't go on about 'elbow grease' like an idiot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I don't blame people for taking low wages if they can't get anything else.

    What makes you think they can't get anything else? Considering the vast majority of Ukrainian Refugees are single parents and children, with half working in hospitality, I imagine the fact that it's not set hours (9-6) is one of the main appeals. Again 50% don't work hospitality, you have just assumed they are being exploited. Again not a great look.

    Does that mean that packing people four to a room and paying them dirt is ethical? A blast of phony antiracism is meant to shut down criticism and discussion of any kind.

    I have literally no idea what you are talking about or how it is relevant to Ukrainian Refugees.

    When I was working as a construction labourer in 2018, there were illegal Romanian workers on a different site 100m away who were getting paid roughly 50% of what I was being paid but of course they weren't making a fuss about it.

    I assume you reported them to the relevant authorities?

    Please don't go on about 'elbow grease' like an idiot.

    Lol. No wonder you never last píssing time on any thread. 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,362 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    If a party came in now with a policy to end this madness they would be very popular.


    • What do you mean if they came in now? We've already got Anti-Corruption Ireland, Irish Freedom Party, National Party etc. Surely they'll be sweeping the boards at the next election?




  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭live4tkd


    Again no issue at all with Ukrainians but at least be able to manage it for the safety of all including them. I think there should be a cap for the time being until we are able to have the resources in place to deal with them, how long that would be I don`t know but when you are hearing of asylum seekers sleeping on the streets its time to say stop at least temporarily. Adding to the already overloaded health service, housing etc as has been said many times before.

    I have no doubt there are some are working but I heard that some I think it was Brazilians are waiting to work but form after form etc is preventing them for months to work, holding the lot up and I am sure Ukrainians are/ will go through the same thing. I am sure they could help with the housing crisis i.e. skills/trades to build houses etc. if they are willing they shouldn`t be prevented in doing so and should be fast tracked to get things going.



  • Posts: 13,688 Bradley Moldy Luck


    Because seeking refuge/asylum is a fundamental human right as agreed by the United Nations.

    And it's literally Irish f*cking law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    When you are full you are full. You can’t be forced to take in people. And they aren’t claiming refuge/asylum, they are coming under an EU directive. One Ireland has an opt out of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    One Ireland has an opt out of.

    No we don't. The directive was incorporated into our statute, no opt out exists.

    The only EU country that had a opt out clause was Denmark, who passed laws to mimic the directive. As did Switzerland, who are not in the EU.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    If people can come here with 0 contribution to the state and get everything for free then something is seriously wrong.

    Cases like this poor lady above are happening every day in Ireland.

    If we can give Ukrianinans free medical cards Willy Nilly then we certainly should be looking after our own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Augme



    The iron of an Irish person saying this. Thank God other countries didn't have this attitude given our history as a state is mass emigration as a solution to our economic problems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    The key difference is that when the Irish emigrated they didn’t receive free accommodation and social welfare from the State in their new home country. The economic cost seems to at the heart of this problem in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Ah historic “guilt”. Where did we rock up, get free accommodation, free food, free second and third level education, and free welfare money??



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Augme



    Should they even have been let in? They weren't even fleeing from war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    I love the Irish emigrated argument. Always so relevant



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    It's a tired trope at this stage.

    Just like Irish people in the 1800s were exploited by the "benevolent" countries who let them immigrate, Ireland Inc today does the same with refugees and low-paid labour. Someone posted earlier in the thread that CSO stats show many Ukrainians working 2 jobs here? They obviously arent being paid much if they have to work 2 jobs, sounds more like being exploited.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They obviously arent being paid much if they have to work 2 jobs, sounds more like being exploited.

    Or just have a fantastic work ethic.

    I use to work 2 jobs when I was saving for a house.

    Again I know in these times some of our own think it an absolute alien notion, especially the Gimme Gimme Gimme cohort. In the not too distant past it was quite common.

    🤷‍♀️



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn



    Less than 20 percent of Ukrainians work. Some “fantastic work ethic!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




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  • Posts: 257 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is not a snowballs chance in hell that we will get these refugees and immigrants to work here because they are on the pig's back with their welfare 'income' here.

    I understand the initial shock to the system with leaving their country in a hurry in the first wave but now we need to lower the welfare income. Otherwise they'll be too used to the cushy, well paid life.

    The other issue around here is we simply do not have enough jobs and houses for everyone, so I think it's time to get real.

    This country's infrastructure and services did not and is not coping with such a rapid increase in population in a short space of time.

    I see it in my job everyday and I called it 12-15 years ago when my school in Dublin was literally getting mini buses of new pupils from around the globe every week to accommodate.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,151 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    A law that allows us to set the numbers involved. The Syrian war which has been going on for far longer with a similar if not greater internal and external displacement of peoples fleeing the fighting and destruction which is far greater and more countrywide than Ukraine, and even has the dubious honour of Russian and Western involvement. How many did we take in a decade? 3500. All checked and accounted before they were given leave to stay. Yet for Ukraine we've taken in over ten times that number in a matter of months, with zero checks and gave them far more straight out of the gate. Same "Irish f*cking law", remarkably different application of same.

    So yeah the "law" angle kinda loses its shine as an argument.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,151 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    This hoary chestnut eh? With the exception of Britain, which for most of Irish emigration history was part of the same country, all the rest were to New World ex colonies of Europe built upon economic immigration of cheap labour and bodies for colonisation, nations where the only social support was charity. The same nations who ask for a lot more checks to get into these days.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So yeah the "law" angle kinda loses its shine as an argument.

    Whether it loses its shine or not, one directive is incorporated into law, the couple of programmes for Syrian refugees were not on our statute books and allowed us to opt in. So yeah the "Law".

    Also Syria does not bother an EU country, Also you didn't want the Syrian Refugees here either did you? So the pearl clutching is quite hard to stomach.

    It does disprove the usual mouth breathing narrative that Ireland will just accept unlimited refugees where ever they may be. So there is that. 👍️



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,826 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Yep



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,151 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Actually I hate to break it to you, I take and took no issue with Syrian refugees, especially in those kind of numbers and with those checks and balances and have stated that more than once and at the height of the crisis with it. Indeed I have noted my surprise/not surprise that we took so many pale faced people so quickly and so earnestly, when we didn't take in a tenth of not so pale faced people, even when photos of dead toddlers washing up on Greek beaches had so many clutching their breasts and flagging their avatars for the likes. Today in Syria half of her population are displaced, five and a half million outside of Syria, seven million within. A number that dwarfs Ukraine. Three quarters of Syrian households can't meet their daily needs. A number that dwarfs Ukraine.

    As for not "bothering" the EU:

    The distances are not so different at all and ask Greeks, Italians and others in that neck of the woods how close Syria is and was at the height of the refugee crisis.

    I did and continue to take issue with the mass of non EU illegal economic migrants and welfare tourists we do practically nothing about dissuading, indeed our talking heads actively encourage, especially before we closed the pregnancy passport loophole by the will of the Irish electorate, but when idiots like McEntee and O'Gorman continue to encourage illegal activity by promising much to the chancers of the world, damn right I take issue.

    I also take no issue with Ukrainian refugees, in particular women, children and the old. I do take issue with the sheer numbers, the lack of any checks, the lack of caps and the incredible lack of planning by our authorities throughout. "Just show up, sure it'll be grand" wasn't and isn't a plan and it becomes a 24 carat clusterfcuk when it's in the middle of the worst housing crisis in the history of our state and the decades long mismanagement of our health services. When your bath is overflowing, only a moron turns the taps up. And yet here we are...

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Indeed I have noted my surprise/not surprise that we took so many pale faced people so quickly and so earnestly, when we didn't take in a tenth of not so pale faced people

    Jaysus, we are all racists now are we Ted? 😕

    Look at the maps Wibbs it's Geography and reality, Refugees will tend to stay around the country they fled. It's no different in this war.

    The Ukraine borders EU countries, the Directive is so those countries do not become overwhelmed. Not because they are uber sound, it's for self preservation. 👍️

    Again it's simply Geography not the colour of their skin, go give your head a wobble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Plenty weren’t let in. What do you think Ellis Island was??


    If you were fit to work you were let in, if you weren’t, back on the coffin ship buddy. No multiple appeals, no “the crathurs are settled here”, no leave to remain. They were let in because they were needed. We’ve no need. We’ve access to a vast, vast labour market in the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    BS, Greece (EU member) was overwhelmed with Syrians. There was no EU directive to give them free everything and access to the EU. Totally different response because lets be honest the Ukrianinans are white.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    There was no EU directive

    Yes that was the whole point of my post. 😕



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