Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Dubinusa · 15-09-2022 1:04pm

The URC is now a decent league! The bokke teams ensure that! Leinster won6breeze into a final.

This tour is bizarre, imo. Sam Illo is as close to an international team as I am!. Deeny also! The timing is poor, the opposition is poor and besides learning systems and the set up, how many of these players will make it as international class players?

I suppose it's something different and maybe a couple of lads can claw their way up into the fringes of the international set up. This should have happened pre season or during an international window.

stephen_n · 15-09-2022 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621313#Comment_119621313

You are second guessing selections though. Even if they had been fit, how can you be sure that either would have been in the 23 ahead of the others. McCarthy could have been selected for size. Frawley was very much a more likely pick than Larmour even if Jordan was fit. He has been an integral part of the match day 23 all season.

The fact remains we are losing two players who were good enough to make match day squad for the final of the premier competition in Europe. You can try play it down all you want but they are significant players for Leinster. As are Deegan and Penney.

aloooof · 15-09-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621774#Comment_119621774

You are second guessing selections though

Yep, there's an element of guessing involved, but I don't think the depth chart I posted is a million miles off either. (And I'd disagree entirely with your assessment that Frawley was very much a more likely pick than Larmour even if Jordan was fit. Frawley was the only player that day who didn't come off the bench).

With regards this:

...they are significant players for Leinster. As are Deegan and Penney.

Would you say there are as significant for Leinster as, say Doak and Baloucoune are for Ulster? Or Prendergast and Blade are for Connacht? They clearly aren't. That's the whole point.

sydthebeat · 15-09-2022 2:46pm

round 1

ulster play connacht this weekend, so both teams down some squad players = argument negated for both teams for this weekend.

round 2

ulster and connacht both away.

connacht away to stormers who will be without their test players due to rugby championship =argument negated for connacht

ulster should have enough for scarlets away

round 3

connacht away to bulls, without their test players = argument negated for connacht

ulster home to leinster, both teams down squad players = argument negated for ulster

so between ulster and connacht im really only seeing 1 game where you could possibly argue a team has been put at an unfair advantage, and that ulster away to scarlets.

awec · 15-09-2022 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622108#Comment_119622108

This is a really bizarre take, I'm going to be honest.

Why do you think both teams having players away negates the argument?

Why do you think another team not having their test players negates the argument?

aloooof · 15-09-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622108#Comment_119622108

This is too simplistic, and built on the assumption the players missing have equal significance to their Provinces. Which is not true.

The reality is Baloucoune and Doak, and Prendergast and Blade are more significant losses to Ulster and Connacht then Frawley and McCarthy are to Leinster. Drawing an equivalence there is just not accurate.

Put simply, do you think all Provinces are losing players at equal levels of their depth chart?

(And as an aside, if, say, Connacht have an advantage over the SA teams due to the RC and the format, we should be trying to maximise that, not even if up for the benefit of the SA teams. And speaking of unfair advantage, Connacht themselves are already at a disadvantage with the additional interpro's).

phog · 15-09-2022 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622108#Comment_119622108

I have to say my first thought on this - that's nonsense.

sydthebeat · 15-09-2022 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622236#Comment_119622236

Put simply, do you think all Provinces are losing players at equal levels of their depth chart?

when ulster play connacht yes.

when ulster play leinster no, but it likely ulster will have their NZ tour contingent back, where thats not certain for leinster

(im basing that on minutes played on tour)

when connacht play stormers and bulls , most certainly.

and as for your last sentence in brackets, thats basically complaining that youre not getting an unfair advantage. Now i realise youre a munster fan, and im just commenting on connacht and ulster here, so ill maybe leave those fans to comment if they are looking for an unfair advantage or not.

sydthebeat · 15-09-2022 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622202#Comment_119622202

Why do you think both teams having players away negates the argument?

why do i think both teams been down squad players negates the argument for complaining that one team is down squad players over another team.... hummm ????? one is an unfair advantage, the other isnt. if you cant see that then ill suggest there some other reason than logic stopping you from seeing it.

same response for your second point, its illogical to view it in any other way.

one might think some fans are just looking for something at all to whinge about, without taking a minute to actually consider the situation.

sydthebeat · 15-09-2022 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622287#Comment_119622287

nothing in my post is unfactual, so to describe it as nonsense is a fair stretch

AdamD · 15-09-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621518#Comment_119621518

People's main misgiving about the league is it not being taken seriously and here we have the IRFU taking players away from the league to play less opposition in SA, i.e. not taking it seriously. It makes perfect sense for people who give out about the URC to hate this idea

awec · 15-09-2022 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622346#Comment_119622346

I genuinely think some people just cannot see the issue here, it's sailing over their head.

It does not matter if the IRFU say they'll take 1 player from Connacht and 1 player from Ulster, this does not mean it's ok, this does not mean any disadvantage has been negated, this does not mean there is no disruption. It is absolutely impossible to quantify the loss to either team in any way that you can stand and say this has no consequences.

I genuinely have no idea how you think a team not having their test players means it's ok to arbitrarily make other players unavailable.

If the WRU did this they'd be slated for it, and rightly so. And I guarantee you not a single person on here would be saying "ah sure, the Welsh are taking a bunch of their players away, but we'll rest our test players so it actually doesn't matter at all", or "well, the Dragons are losing 5 players and we have 5 players on our injury list, so that totally negates any problems".

phog · 15-09-2022 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622352#Comment_119622352

If every team in the URC had squad of 45 players does that mean every team is equal - because your argument seems to lean towards that way of thinking.

aloooof · 15-09-2022 4:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622319#Comment_119622319

But again, your argument is built on the assumption the players missing have equal significance to their Provinces. They don't. Prendergast and Blade are way more important to Connacht than Frawley and McCarthy are to Leinster. And they're playing each other in Round 4; the tour spans Rounds 3 and 4, so the fixtures directly impacted are:

Ulster: Leinster (h), Ospreys (h)

Munster: Zebre (h), Connacht (a)

Leinster: Ulster (a), Sharks (h)

Connacht: Munster (h), Leinster (h).

And we know momentum counts. Connacht have a pretty horrible opening run of fixtures, and this adds another element to contend with.

...and as for your last sentence in brackets, thats basically complaining that youre not getting an unfair advantage.

Nope; it's acknowledging that if an unfair advantage exists by the vagaries of the format (which it does) I'd want my Province to be looking to make the most of it. Whatever way you frame it, ultimately an advantage Connacht otherwise would have had is now reduced.

(I've refrained from mentioning Munster here, as I largely think, given the fixtures, they don't come off too badly).

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-09-2022 4:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621549#Comment_119621549

I feel there's less than 10 players they care about in terms of the international team.

2-3 that have a genuine chance at making a world Cup 33, 5-7 that have a chance of a call up in case of injuries.

The rest of the squad are are players that don't get enough game time and wouldn't get any game time in urc getting a run out for development purposes.

TRC10 · 15-09-2022 4:17pm

Ironically, this tour will probably make it less likely that Frawley see's game time at 10 for Leinster this season. Since Leo and Lancaster know they'll be losing him for 3 games soon, I imagine they'll be much more likely to go with Ross Byrne at the start of the season to minimise disruption.

If the Ireland coaches really do see Frawley as the natural successor at 10, they should have done to Leinster what they did to Ulster 4 years ago when they didn't let them extend Pienaar's contract so they could install Cooney at 9, and not allowed Ross Byrne's contract be extended last season.

If they could do that to Ulster, why couldn't they do it to Leinster? Well, I think people can figure that one out themselves. The IRFU have no problem screwing the other provinces over for their benefit, but they don't want to upset the apple cart at Leinster.

aloooof · 15-09-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622506#Comment_119622506

Nah, different scenario, the obvious point of difference being Pienaar was an NIQ player.

stephen_n · 15-09-2022 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621818#Comment_119621818

Doak who is very clearly second choice at Ulster?

Baloucoune is the most significant player for Ulster to be involved in this. One player, if that is what you regard as significant disruption. Then we can agree to disagree.

Connacht are arguably most affected in terms of players lost. Prendergast being the most significant loss. Blade not so much so if Marmion is fit but still a key player for them. Would either be the winning or losing of a game. I really don’t think so.

No one has ever said there won’t be disruption to squads. There will but ultimately I can’t see how people think this will be the winning or losing of any game.

I doubt one single player named in that squad will be bemoaning then fact they got picked and would prefer to be at home playing for their province.

As Paul pointed out earlier. With a jam packed season, there is no perfect time for this. It works for the Irish setup and ultimately the provinces serve that purpose.

15-09-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622108#Comment_119622108

I mean, any material disadvantage should be balancing out during the six nations - not the next few weeks.

That said - the emerging Ireland tour is unlikely to be an annual event given it looks to be part of the World Cup build up. As such - I've no issue with it at all and whilst the opposition isn't great, there is a lot to be gained from a tour experience over a couple of weeks that can't really be replicated in weekend away fixtures.

aloooof · 15-09-2022 4:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622531#Comment_119622531

Doak who is very clearly second choice at Ulster?

Yes, Doak who is clearly 2nd choice at Ulster is a more significant loss than, 3rd/4th choice lock McCarthy is to Leinster. Again, that's exactly the point.

Baloucoune is the most significant player for Ulster to be involved in this. One player, if that is what you regard as significant disruption. Then we can agree to disagree.

To be fair, I never said significant disruption since the squad was announced. All I'm saying is I can understand why, say, Ulster or Connacht fans may feel a little aggrieved.

Connacht are arguably most affected in terms of players lost. Prendergast being the most significant loss. Blade not so much so if Marmion is fit but still a key player for them. Would either be the winning or losing of a game. I really don’t think so.

Connacht were involved in 7 1-score games in the URC last season. Ulster were involved in 9. It'll be impossible to ever know, but it could be the winning and losing of a game, in what is likely to be a very tight table again this season.

But I think at this point you're right that we can just leave it there and agree to disagree.

Former Former Former · 15-09-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622529#Comment_119622529

Well, the obvious point of difference is that they'd need a time machine to go back to February, not renew Byrne's contract, then zip forward to now and instal Frawley as back-up 10.

I think Andy Farrell's refusal to bend the fabric of space and time is the clearest indication yet that it's all a pro-Leinster conspiracy.

ersatz · 15-09-2022 5:32pm

@TRC10 People are getting silly now, comparing non IQ pienar to RB’s contract extension, please. This will have no impact on Frawleys time at ten for Leinster, in fact it will give him 2 or 3 decent games at ten on tour, and more’s the point that if coaches are picking RB at ten, Frawley will be in the mix for the bench. At the level of most URC games his performance in NZ alone would guarantee that. Their options aren’t great given that HB barely played, did he crack two hundred minutes last season? Come on, Leinster coaches aren’t stupid.

Khan77 · 15-09-2022 5:45pm

Is Harry Byrne still injured? The rationale for him going on this jamboree would be very similar to Baloucoune given they have both missed a lot of rugby in the past year.

Must love hardship · 15-09-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621774#Comment_119621774

2 players who saw a grand total of 4 minutes in that final between them.

Leinster really used their bench very very poorly in that final.

O'Gara and La Rochelle really taught the Leinster management a lesson with his superior use of the bench.

If after this Tour Frawley comes back having nailed down the 3rd choice Irish outhalf Jersey. Then the tour is nearly justified for that one reason alone.. similarly if Doak shows he can manage the game plan at 9 or joe Mccarthy or max Deegan show they can be pack leader.

There are many positives Ireland can gain from this tour.

Its not perfect by any means but covid hampered the last 2 years and this sort of a tour would have been held then under normal circumstances.

Bogwoppit · 15-09-2022 6:22pm

Looking at this squad I’m now thinking that this tour is being done purely to get game time into a 3 or 4 of the squad, mainly Frawley, Blade and Balacoune.

I think Blade may well be ahead of Casey come the WC and I think the Ireland Management now see Frawley as Sexton’s long term successor, this is a way for them to push that process on quicker than just leaving their development to the provinces and on the fringes of the Ireland match day squads.

If Frawley performs any way well on this tour he’ll be well up the pecking order come the AI’s.

awec · 15-09-2022 6:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622581#Comment_119622581

The people who keep saying "sure it's only 1 or 2 players" just keep missing the point. Missing any player who is in with a shout of playing league games for this reason is unacceptable.

You are always going to have players injured, that's just the reality. Outside of injury, and outside of extreme / unforeseen circumstances, the expectation is (quite rightly) that the rest of the squad is available to play matches. This is why, in literally any other league of this sport, and any other sport in fact, this idea would be laughed out of the room as ridiculous. This is how competitive integrity is maintained.

Players are being taken away from their clubs, outside of a test window, to go play absolutely nothing fixtures in SA. If Dan McFarland wanted to pick Stewart Moore against Leinster he cannot, because Stewart Moore is away playing low-level nothing matches on the other side of the world. If Dan McFarland decided he wanted to play Nathan Doak, he cannot for the same reason. This is not only incredibly stupid, but it's very disrespectful.

This is worse than anything the WRU have ever done. It's worse than the 4th test in the Autumn. This is, IMO, the clearest indication we have ever seen that the powers that be do not care whatsoever about the URC. The competition is treated with disdain, it's just there to fill the weeks in.

stephen_n · 15-09-2022 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623139#Comment_119623139

This is worse than anything the WRU have ever done. It's worse than the 4th test in the Autumn. This is, IMO, the clearest indication we have ever seen that the powers that be do not care whatsoever about the URC. The competition is treated with disdain, it's just there to fill the week

That’s known as projection

molloyjh · 15-09-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620891#Comment_119620891

I’d imagine it isn’t any one thing. It would be different things for different players. But getting them familiar with the systems, getting them to work on specific things (most likely in the cases of Frawley and Balacoune) and then seeing how they apply those things in a match day situation would be, at a high level, what they are after. How that worked for them in the Māori games seems to be cited as the driver.

molloyjh · 15-09-2022 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622506#Comment_119622506

This is total garbage. Total and absolute horse manure. One of the most badly thought out posts I’ve seen on this forum. It’s incredible really.

Ulster couldn’t re-sign Peinaar because they hadn’t produced a single IQ scrum half in years. They imported one (Boss) and immediately dropped him for Peinaar when the latter arrived. Having a province provide no realistic IQ players in a specialist position is not a runner in the medium term. And so Peinaar was not extended.

Absolutely none of the above is true of Leinster, the 10 shirt or Ross Byrne. The two things are in no way, shape or form comparable. And it’s beyond bizarre to try and equate the two to pedal a laughable provincial bias line.

We often disagree on things, but I’m actually stunned at how insane a take this is.

ersatz · 15-09-2022 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623139#Comment_119623139

awec, you normally post with great insight but you have gone on a jihad about this tour! Of course there is a cost given that the tour happens during weeks with league matches but the IRFU calculate that the upside is greater than the downside. They think IT's WORTH IT. And if we get a couple of players who make the team better come the World Cup then it is worth it. Remember, from the IRFU's perspective EVERYTHING is designed to make the Irish team better. That's the mission.

16-09-2022 9:36am

I can't for the life of me understand the negativity surrounding this tour.

You'd swear the provinces weren't going to be able to field a team the way some people are going on.

It is a huge positive for Irish rugby to have these young players in that environment and acclimating themselves to the Irish systems, patterns and coaching ticket. For the majority of the players involved, the prospect of going on this tour must be hugely exciting.

On Robert Baloucoune specifically, he wouldn't be going on this tour if not for the fact that he has missed huge chunks of rugby in recent years with a variety of injuries. That has cost him time in Irish camps, or opportunities to claim a shirt.

As good as he's looked for Ulster (and I think at his best he should be an Irish starter), it wouldn't surprise me if the coaching ticket feels he has something to prove to them, and have included him here to get a closer look at him for those purposes.

16-09-2022 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623139#Comment_119623139

This is an absolute nonsensical take on this.

Of all the ways disdain has been shown (by all the participating Unions) for the URC (and its predecessors) over the years, this isn't even remotely near the top of the list.

For years, teams have routinely not picked anything resembling full strength squads for URC games for reasons purely driven by the player management policy, not injury.

The Welsh have full on quit on the competition multiple times.

The structure of the competition is flawed, and unfair on certain teams.

The quality of refereeing in the competition has been shambolic at times, with some absolutely daylight robbery decisions from home nation TMOs (like Ulster in SA).

The respective unions have ignored all of these very obvious issues and flaws with the competition. Yet somehow now, this tour (stated as part of our World Cup preparation) is "stupid", "disrespectful" and the worst thing the IRFU have ever done with regard to the competition.

The average age of players in this squad is 22, their average number of appearances for their provinces is 24 (highly skewed by a handful of guys like Blade, Deegan, Frawley who have considerable appearance numbers), so I just don't accept the belief that the provincial squads have been crippled by withdrawing a handful of players from all of them.

Wegians89 · 16-09-2022 10:30am

The likes of frawley, baloucoune, blade, Prendergast, Deegan, Doak and Mccarthy could easily be called up into the World Cup squad come later group stages / quarter final time due to injuries. Exposing them to an environment led by the Irish coaches and most likely demanding that these players are the leadership group is actually very smart.

RichieRich_89 · 16-09-2022 10:40am

If you take a long-term view I can see two positives for the a province:

losing players means that others further down the pecking order are more likely to get exposure in the URC, which will increase the strength-in-depth in the long run. This could be useful towards the end of the season if there are injuries. So often it's because others are absent (usually through injury) that someone gets a shot. Would Kendellen have had such a big season last season and be as far along in his development as he is if Hodnett had been available?
Having more international players is a good way to have a competitive edge over the other provinces. Exposure to Test rugby can make players better, as in the case of Gibson-Park. Featuring in this touring squad has to increase a player's chance of picking up Test caps down the line. As a Leinster fan I'd like to have seen more Leinster players selected.

Former Former Former · 16-09-2022 10:50am

I'm going to organise a march on IRFU headquarters tomorrow anyway. We can decide when we get there if it's a protest or a show of support.

awec · 16-09-2022 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625218#Comment_119625218

The point is still sailing over your head unfortunately, but I'm not going to drag this out any further.

16-09-2022 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625464#Comment_119625464

Yeah, that's it of course. It's "sailing over the head" of whoever disagrees with your take on this. 🙄

Former Former Former · 16-09-2022 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623763#Comment_119623763

It would be different things for different players.

That's exactly what it is. There's no way that Caoilin Blade and Brian Deeny could be going on the same tour for the same reasons.

For the bulk of these guys, they wouldn't be playing in the URC next couple of weeks anyway, but maybe we get a jump on prep for the 2027 RWC. Who k nows, maybe we'll find a bolter for 2023.

For a small minority of players, it's a chance to impress the coaches up close and personal and maybe skip the queue for the November tests. I'd say not more than three.

I think it will be a very useful tour for Ireland. @awec is right though, it's two fingers to the URC.

16-09-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625677#Comment_119625677

I don't accept that it is two fingers to the URC really; particularly not if the IRFU have made some front line internationals available during this window who wouldn't ordinarily be available at this point in the season.

But even if it is, who cares? What do the IRFU owe to this competition at this juncture? Irish provinces have dominated it since its inception, winning it 13 out of the 21 years its existed. Regardless of what happens with this tour, the Irish sides will likely be at the business end of the competition once again this season.

The competitive integrity of the URC as a competition has more issues than this specific example.

Shehal · 16-09-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622360#Comment_119622360

Because as much was we care about the league we care about preparing as best as possible for the RWC even more... They can give out all they want, they just want to give out and if it wasnt for this tour they'd find something else to complain about so just let them moan and be miserable in their box for all I care...

ClanofLams · 16-09-2022 12:28pm

It’s a complete farce. Playing cheetahs etc won’t do anything to help get these guys to test level.

Dylan Tierney Martin is in Connacht’s 23 for tomorrow against Ulster, over the next month he would see game time against the two league finalists in South Africa, Leinster and Munster. Instead he’s on a rabble of a tour playing weak opposition.

The players will gain some insight into how Ireland operate etc but it doesn’t justify taking them away for three weeks. The absolute max is two guys make the World Cup squad, I would say it’s unlikely to be even that. This will have no tangible impact on how they perform given the length of time they will spend in camp pre World Cup.

pickarooney · 16-09-2022 12:37pm

Which two, Frawley and Baloucoune?

ClanofLams · 16-09-2022 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625876#Comment_119625876

I’d say they are the leading candidates and maybe one of Doak/Blade, the former more likely I think. Maybe one of them, maybe none of them.

They won’t be playing alongside too many if any from this tour and they will have a a few months together before and during the World Cup, I don’t think this tour will make a tangible impact on how they perform at the World Cup if they do make squad.

16-09-2022 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625828#Comment_119625828

Connacht have bothered to pick Dylan Tierney Martin only 6 times over the past couple of seasons, but now it's a tragedy that he'll miss sitting on the bench for a couple of games.

ClanofLams · 16-09-2022 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625929#Comment_119625929

He’s had injuries and he’s a converted back row (since around 18 I think) who is still only 22. With Shane Delahunt out this would have been a real opportunity for him to put down a marker.

Three of the Connacht players touring are in the 23 v Ulster, I’m not sure why Cian Prendergast isn’t but he would certainly see game time assuming fitness over the next month. They don’t exactly have great depth to begin with.

Connacht are facing the two strongest South African teams and Munster and Leinster. They’re an injury to Dave Heffernan or Kieran Marmion away from relying on Grant Stewart and Colm Reilly at hooker/9 and academy backups.

This tour is a disaster for Connacht. All for a rabble of a tour against weak opposition.

16-09-2022 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625973#Comment_119625973

He's 23, and converted to hooker over 4 years ago. He was on the same U20s side as Craig Casey, Ryan Baird, John Hodnett, Scott Penny, Ben Healy and Stewart Moore, all of whom have managed to rack up a lot more minutes despite arguably facing stiffer competition.

Jonny Murphy was keeping him out of a match day 23 regularly last season.

As numerous others have said; this tour means different things for different players. For the likes of Tierney Martin, Deeny, Illo, Milne etc it's about showing something to the coaching staff and getting used to the set up, and the style of play, so as to hopefully position themselves for the squads post next year's WC.

For other guys like Frawley, Baloucoune and Blade, there absolutely is something to be shown here, and the opportunity to find themselves in test squads for the autumn. I think Blade is a better player than Craig Casey right now, and at 28 he could absolutely still play a part for Ireland. Don't you want to see him get that opportunity?

Plenty of Connacht fans have moaned over the years when they've felt their players aren't getting enough international recognition, but don't recognise now that this is a pathway to that. Connacht need to build out more depth in any event; so the notion of dipping into academy players shouldn't be so startling.

Plus Connacht are going to go into the four games you've mentioned as underdogs in any event, regardless of the presence of guys like Dylan Tierney Martin or Sam Illo.

Former Former Former · 16-09-2022 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625973#Comment_119625973

This tour is a disaster for Connacht.

We're always hearing that Connacht players don't get a fair shake with Ireland. This is a chance for some of the guys to make an impression on Catt and Easterby that they wouldn't otherwise get. That's another way to look at it.

Prendergast was never going to be available v Ulster because he was in NZ.

ClanofLams · 16-09-2022 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626059#Comment_119626059

He was out from December to March last season. He made five appearances when he returned. None of those players you mentioned converted to hooker from back row, last season was the earliest possible period he could have expected to make an impact given that switch. He’s probably a 100-1 shot to make the World Cup squad, he would be far better served playing against better opposition for his province over the next month.

Something to be shown where? Ciaran Frawley having a good game against Griquas is going to tell us a lot about his potential at test level?!

Yes Connacht would be underdogs regardless it doesn’t excuse taking away first choice players like Blade and Prendergast for some nonsense tour playing second tier South African teams.

ClanofLams · 16-09-2022 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626074#Comment_119626074

A week long camp in Ireland would have presented the same opportunity without undermining provinces and the league.

stephen_n · 16-09-2022 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626108#Comment_119626108

Clearly the coaches don’t believe so. How exactly are you qualified to know that? Since none of us know the goals or the inner workings of these camps.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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