Young people and emigration: The elephant in the room

The land they were on has been sold off for housing.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I'm going to disagree with both of you.

All the years I lived and worked in Dublin, I never say any muggings. I saw a fight or two when the pubs close, but you see that in any town in Ireland. I didn't see bus drivers getting abuse, but I did see a bus driver abusing an ethnic minority.

Dublin's a big city, different areas have different stuff happen in them. I was in Blanch and it was fine. I would imagine there's far rougher and far nicer places.

The one thing I'll disagree with you is where you said people with good jobs will stay. It's not just good jobs. I left the country despite having a good job. I moved to Germany where I'm earning slightly more. But because rent is so cheap I have a far better life. I'm an IT professional who has a decent job. I even have a huge deposit. 20 years ago I could have bought a house outright with it, but it's got so bad in Dublin all I could afford to buy would be a small one bed on the outskirts, and that's with a mortgage.

But here's the nasty thing. I would return to Dublin/Ireland if I could, but I can't. I just can't afford to move back. It's far too expensive. Here I rent a big apartment in the centre of a big city. I couldn't afford a bedsit in Dublin on the same rent. I'd probably end up house sharing on what I pay here.

I'd actually say that it's more likely that people with good jobs will move. It's hard to get a lower paid job anywhere in europe unless you speak the language. There's always the UK but it has massive inequality. I could easily see young professionals and even older people being lured away by similar jobs but with better lifestyles.

To be honst Ireland isnt much different than many other places. They all have problems. V little if nothing in the press about the problems in the aussie construction industry esp in victoria. Also housing slowing in canda esp after the clamp down of chinesse money in the housing market.

In terms of employee rights we fair a lot better here than other countries, from amount of annual leave and lenght of maternity leave, to protections around redundancy. Funny enough that rarely discusses

Also many leave just for experience to let their hair down before coming back to the realities of grown up life

that chap argues with everyone and then blocks them when he doesnt like the truth coming back, better off blocking him yourself

The people escaping Ireland, are likely those whose parents get robbed of serious amounts of tax. Way more than their kids education cost. Why would you stay here? For the weather? **** nightlife if young? Third world infrastructure? Housing? Health ? Marginal tax rate at near minimum wage? Lol! Get out of here if young. This is a country for the corrupt , connected and welfare system is worlds most generous. Why bother staying around here, being a poverty case and pay for it?

Oh so it's the dole heads kids who are emigrating from the free luxury housing, medical cards, welfare bonuses is it ?

Have you travelled to other European cities similar to size in Dublin? How do we compare for infrastructure?

They wouldnt allow them. It would give people more choice and decrease demand for regular housing...

It is due to our building and planning laws no other reasons

The wages are better in those cities compared to ours.

There are more levels you can go up in companies etc. My cousin was working in financial services here. And there were literally only two levels where she was working. And not a great difference in pay. She moved to London there are multiple levels and positions and there is an increasing pay scale that you have more mobility and access to.

The truth is there are lots of low level jobs here but going up a pay grade you have to wait for people to leave. There is more opportunity in bigger cities and better wages.

Im not saying all employers bend rules. But many want people to work 10 months of the year and work they to death and lay them off for two months. Only to take back the EXACT same people after the two months but like they are starting from scratch again in the same company. It must be very demoralizing to feel you are always an apprentice.

But also people with PHDS etc are on like 28k or 38k in tech and IT. Its nuts.

I did you just didn't pay attention. While living in China you do not have freedom to say what you want or be what you want via religion or sexuality. That is a restriction you are willing to put up with where I say that is a lower standard of living. Not that it would effect me directly but that it a standard you wouldn't accept here. You may thinking it is fine people have to hide things I don't but by not caring you are supporting it by saying just keep quite and you will be alright. It is a surveillance state. You are a second class citizen there. The property market in China is way more broken than ours and will collapse in a way we never could. You are saying there is a better standard of living in China I am just pointing out it is only better if you accept massive injustices in their society just because it doesn't effect you. That is living off the backs of people.

Not anything like political policies of the USA. I don't live in the USA because of the massive inequity that society has. I lived there and came back to Ireland. When you go into your favourite bar to find the bar owner has to do a a go fund me for life saving surgery and in the end they end up selling everything they had to get treatment you find it disgusting. Their labour laws are terrible and as that is part of standards of living it is better here

I have not brought in new points since the original post. You are saying there is a better standard of living in countries and I am pointing out how it rests on mistreatment.

Your 24 year pension investment has to be less than a pension plan from here as you are paid less in those countries. You may be able to retire in some cheap country if they exist then and let you live there. I can retire in Ireland and may choose to live in a cheaper country to live off the economic difference.

How do you feel about Irish landlords? Are they profiting off the backs of working people?

More ranting. There is nothing wrong with using buses for transport within cities every city with a metro use them too. If you have actual stats on LA compared to Dublin show them because our public transport is way better than there is my view. There are more dedicated us routes coming.

Our healthcare system is better than the USA due to prices and availability to people. We will never have the NHS due to the size of our country and economics of scale.

Education in Ireland is certainly a better option here than the USA due again to price and availability. I know people in their 50s still paying off student loans in the US. There students don't go to college because they can afford the college let alone a place to live

Go leave and find a country where housing is so much cheaper and doesn't have a housing/property issue. You can discount USA,China, Australia, Canada, UK, Germany etc... and tell us which country you think it is better. You really should also consider if the same applies to the locals or if what you obtained in Ireland allows you to jump over the locals.

Those who want to go should leave but with their eyes open.

I moved to Dusseldorf. Wonderful city.

I started a new job here last september, so I've been here just over a year.

Interesting comment.

I lived overseas for a long period but visited less due to living in Asia.

As I viisted less I got to see snapshots of change.

I would say that family and friends didn't change a whole lot but the country has changded and Dublin has changed tremendously, and that has been difficult to asjust to in some ways as I would say Dublin is worse than it used to be in terms of being super crowded ,dirty, expensive , impersonal and while having massive amounts of foreigners having a surprising lack of ethnic food or interesting ethnic districts Dublin is a huge disappointment these days. Anyway...I digress.

Areas outside of Dublin still offer good value and very good quality of life.

I find native Irish people generally still very friendly but busy as the world gets busier.

There are many innovative companies in Ireland now it isnt such a creative wasteland.

Also my family is diverse but we didn't experience any racism yet, thats really a big plus for modern Ireland.

Politics in Ireland is a competition to see who can tax more and spend more and to me it's crazy they want to add even more taxes and not even one party is talking about really reducing taxes. I don't like that Ireland has never developed a spectrum of choice between right of center and left of center parties, theres almost no real choice. I find many Irish to be conceited in that they think we have a great neutral independent country but we don2t even invest to have a functional air force for defense and rely on the UK. That is a bad joke!

Lack of investment in community sports abd leisure facilities and swimming pools is also very frustrating.

I find it difficult to move back because the high taxes and cost of living more than anything though, I will be honest. High earners get absolutely shafted, and most Irish people seem to think thats normal althpugh ypu go put and work a 12 hpur day...but then you need to pay 52% tax? Meanwhile somebody can pop out a kid abd apply for free everything and do nothing.

The second factor is the tough climate for at least half the year. Hard to adjust back to that if you have been living in hotter climes (this Summer was great though).

I also found that there aren't that many high paid jobs in Ireland, with pay rates similar outside of IT with rates back in 2008, and yes the prevalence of temp contracts is really not good at all. Where I worked in Asia the number of temp contracts was much less due to automatic permanency after six months and the employment Law is actually much stronger in that regard. Working temp contracts seems to be common even for older people in finance, I was blow away by that

Evcen though we would miss family and friends we are thinking of leaving again because the money we save and the general lifestyle we enjoy are far better back in Asia. Maybe keep Ireland for the Summers ☀️.

Just some thoughts from somebody who left and came back . The longer you leave the harder it may be to return as you get used to different ways of seeing and doling things.

No, people are emigrating because we can't rent for anything like a sane amount and have security of tenure!

The younger, urban generation here have less of the land-ownership mania that previous generations had. Given the choice, they would be quite happy to rent, but stupid rents are pushing them towards ownership (if they can afford it), staying with the parents (not a good or healthy situation for either party) or overseas.

I have lived outside of Ireland and I paid attention. You have chosen to ignore injustices because you live a good life. Would you accept these restrictions in Ireland? You are also very selective of what is and has happened in China. You think I am being "linear" in my thoughts on a the fact Muslim people are currently in a concentration camp. You can't just ignore it because YOU think it is only sometimes they do this stuff.

You really should look up the Chinese property issues. There are huge ghost cities with crumbling, incomplete badly constructed buildings which are used to keep the economy going. It is all on the verge of collapse in a way that is nothing like our housing crisis.

You admit you are in a privileged situation just by being a westerner and therfore ridding on the backs of those mistreated. You are fine with that which is your choice but anyone is entitled to judge you for your choice.

It isn't a home bird thing I see value in many countries as places to live just what you have picked I find morally bankrupt. You can argue all you like about other countries but you chose a country with a direct connection to abuse. The same as people who move to Dubai and ignore that slavery was used to build where you live.

Your choice but you can not get away from the facts.

USA is a bad example - how good your services are depend on how much you can and are willing to pay.

You want to compare Ireland's healthcare? Try comparing it to Germany where your health insurance covers GP visits, subsidised perscriptions, refeals to specialists such as psychotherapists and so forth.

Try comparing infrastructure - commute times in Berlin compared to Dublin. How much does it cost to get a night bus home at 1am on a Tuesday morning and how frequently are they?

Try comparing rents - how much is an average 50sqm one room apartment in Dublin compared to a city of the same size in Germany?

Try comparing prices - how much as a pint of beer in an average Dublin bar or supermarket compared to Berlin, or Hamburg or pick a German city of your choice.

Fair enough, but if comparing to Germany is unfair because of size, then compairing it to the US is....?