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Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is not Enoch Burke's place to decide what is in the child's best interest.

    He is a teacher, not a parent, and in this specific case, he was neither when it came to this child, as they were not even taught by him.

    The child's request was supported by their parents.

    Who the hell is some teacher to presume he knows what is in this child's best interest, better than their own parents?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Perhaps he wanted.......

    Not even going to quote the rest

    Simple fact is he didn't give a toss about the child.

    He was quite clear he was thinking only of his views and his beliefs. At no point did he ever express any concern for the child, who I might add had the support of the parents, the principal and all other teachers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Bit arrogant to decide that you know what's best for a child ahead of the child's parents, teachers and the child themselves...?

    This is about what's best for him.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Wait I thought the Duty of care for the child was paramount over rights of the parents.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Define "duty of care"? In what way is it paramount?

    In any case his objections were most definitely based on his religion and not any feelings that allowing a child to choose there pronouns required an intervention. I don;t think there was even a mention of the child in any of his rants?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭madeiracake


    Duty of care doesn't mean his belief comes before the needs of the child. He doesn't get to force his beliefs on others. That's not caring. Imagine how this child feels having him scream and shout about them and now dragging it through the courts. It stopped being about the well-being of the child long ago for Mr Burke.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Good to see the Burke's are allowed online at least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭stellamere


    Ha, im off with mammy to the high court now to complain about all this🙃



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭stellamere


    Yep, it might well have been. It's a difficult one. Such decisions can have a huge impact on the child for the rest of their lives. I'd certainly agree with the principal of what's best for the child from a psychological perspective should be applied, and of course the psychologists differ.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's not really a difficult one. It's pretty simple really



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Fairly black and white one, actually. At no one point has anyone - even Burke - suggested that the child might be danger.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    The full list of rights for children and young people under the age of 18 is set out in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, the most accepted standard on children’s rights in the world. Ireland committed to promote children’s rights when it signed up to the Convention in 1992.

    Children’s rights include the right to health, education, family life, play and recreation, an adequate standard of living and to be protected from abuse and harm. Children’s rights cover their developmental and age-appropriate needs that change over time as a child grows up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Answers neither.question, bit seeing as you brought it up, it allows for a child to have an education free from abuse - which would include verbal abuse and discrimination, so your post just adds anothernail.to Burke's coffin.

    Post edited by Princess Consuela Bananahammock on

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Section 37 of the EEA 1998 allows religious schools to discriminate in order to uphold religious ethos.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/21/section/37/enacted/en/html

    A new act in 2015 amended section 37 so that publicly funded schools could not discriminate against groups like LGBT and thats where I made the mistake. I think @Hotblack Desiato is correct and the 2015 Act would still uphold discrimination in certain circumstances.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/43/section/11/enacted/en/html

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No. No. No.


    It says a school CANT sack a teacher when it wishes

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Honestly you are creating problems where there isnt any. 😶

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Indeed. And you can argue there that Burkes actions breach the childs rights to be protected from abuse

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,715 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    How flippin' thick is this post?

    You can't withdraw pay or fire anybody without following the proper procedure including having a disciplinary hearing. This is the process Burke is preventing going ahead with his ridiculous antics.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Indeed. It’s extraordinary the legal wriggling done to keep religious ethos in place.

    And there are some in the upper reaches of the CS and retired from same who see themselves as wonderful for having pandered to political protection of vested interests (done via fear of property rights where the religious have them by the short and curly) and trying to hollow out religious ethos to a shell. And yet there it is feeding into the belief that religion is the trump card.

    Someday we will finally grow up here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Yep. Just because he got suspended with pay doesn't mean he was right in his argument. It's not related. Why is it that those on the side of the teacher have such a lack of understanding?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,715 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    What a load of utter crap

    If I'm introduced to you and tell you what my name is, do you demand to see ID or maybe a birth cert? Or do you take me at my word and do me the common courtesy of addressing me in the manner I prefer to be addressed?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,715 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Maybe teaching is not for you so, I mean how would you remember dozens (primary) or hundreds (secondary) of names? 🙄

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,715 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's not at all difficult for a person who can behave in a normal sociable and empathetic manner.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,715 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yeah, so they can't fire a teacher who comes out as gay but they can if they "lose their faith" or join another religion.

    This is completely bizarre in a supposed developed country in the 21st century

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No wonder then some end up believing religion is special.



  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    Exactly this

    I teach classes of 30+ students Physics and Math. It is difficult enough deal with occasional discipline problems in the classroom / encourage the weaker students etc without worrying about having to address an 'obvious' boy/ girl by an alternative pronoun.

    My job is to get these kids through exams. And this is what most normal parents want. If the student has gender identity issues, they generally do not wish the whole class to know about it

    Odd as this Enoch chap is, I find the parents of this student (who wished to be referred to by alternative pronouns) even more bizarre. If they had their child's best interest at heart, they would not want attention drawn to their son / daughter. Their priority would be in their son / daughter getting the best results at school.

    I meet some of my students for coffee at weekends and they find this whole situation quite comic. All agreed that if they were having gender identity issues, they would consider it a private matter - and absolutely not one for a school setting.

    At parents' meetings, a parent might bring up such a subject with me privately (if they thought such an issue was interfering with their child's studies) but would never insist their child was singled out / addressed by alternative pronouns.

    A lot of people banging on here about this child's rights - (with similar clatter to this Enoch chap, which makes me wonder what their own personal issues might be) -

    well, a lot of these "children" simply don't know their own minds yet. They haven't been out in the real world to test their feelings in real life relationships

    Teenage years are full of confusion. I am male and i had a crush on a male teacher in high school - Does that make me gay ?

    I am and always have been heterosexual. I was "going through a phase". Simples

    I respect whatever gender a person wishes to identify as and will address them by their preferred appellation.

    But in the classroom - my job is to teach the subjects at hand and get my students the best results possible. End of

    I am going to leave it there. I can't speak for all teachers in Ireland but my colleagues and teachers I have spoken with feel exactly the same



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭FoxForce5




  • Registered Users Posts: 34,715 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    There is no subject in Irish schools called "math" 🙄

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i, too, am an extremely unlikely caricature and i also agree with myself as does everyone i meet.



This discussion has been closed.
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