Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

tomasrojo · 15-09-2022 10:30pm

Yeah, don't know. My understanding was that documents and leaflets have to be provided in both languages but dealing with people through Irish is subject to availability of Irish speakers.

It's reasonably easy for most people who've been through the school system to learn to say "I'm sorry, I don't speak Irish well" in Irish and then continue in English, which I guess would maybe be a diplomatic way to deal with it.

tomasrojo · 15-09-2022 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624028#Comment_119624028

Yeah, there are plenty of nice enough ones, but quite a few are difficult to deal with and put you in a situation of having to tell them they're in error, leaving you quite vulnerable to being issued a bogus fine or whatever if that irks them.

Skrynesaver · 16-09-2022 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619432#Comment_119619432

The cyclist in question is the editor of the Irish language magazine Nós (https://nos.ie/gniomhaiochas/teanga/fuil-tarraingthe-ag-gardai-nach-labhrodh-gaeilge-le-cainteoir-gaeilge-i-mbaile-atha-cliath/) and as such one would would imagine he's quite keen on asserting his rights as an Irish language speaker. If I were confronted by someone wielding the awesome might of the state while being absolutely incorrect, I might be tempted to make a tit of them, not wise - but a human response.

cletus · 16-09-2022 9:39am

Given his keen interest in the Irish language, I'm sure he's aware that there's no expectation that every Garda he meets should be fluent in Irish, only that if he requests to conduct his affairs through Irish, an Irish speaker will be provided.

So we're back to what benefit he saw in speaking to a single Garda in Irish

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2022 9:44am

This just annoys me being honest.

We have many people in Ireland that may not be able to conduct a conversation in English. Some of them are native Latvian speakers, others Mandarin speakers, other Urdu speakers, others Portuguese speakers.

However there is not one single Irish speaker in this country who is unable to have a conversation in English.

Its a joke and the guy gets zero sympathy from me, in fact it annoys the f8ck out of me.

Speaking Irish is a cultural choice, and no more. For me its no more a right than people have the right to play gaelic football or sing sean nos. Can you imagine a requirement that one in five gardai had to be able to take a sideline puck

fat bloke · 16-09-2022 11:11am

It's not for you to say whether it's a right or not though is it?

"The Constitution permits the public to conduct its business – and every part of its business – with the State solely through Irish. As a result, public bodies have a duty to comply with this right."

Just as much as his right to ride his bike. - If there are crowds around the streets at an event, the guards don't go telling anyone to get out of their cars. I'm sure there are drivers who will say "For me, cycling is no more a right than Gaelic football". The Gardai are there to enforce a law. They can't choose to fine people or get annoyed with them for the language they speak or for engaging in a perfectly legal activity in a perfectly legal setting, in Irish or English or Swahili or sign language.

Large bottle small glass · 16-09-2022 11:21am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdokBQW7Suc

Was this the Garda

cletus · 16-09-2022 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625459#Comment_119625459

For the most part this constitutional right has been acknowledged here in relation to the gardaí. Nobody is saying he doesn't have a right to do it.

What I've continually asked is what benefit was derived, considering the goal of language is communication. I know, from my point of view, the only reason for him to switch to Irish would seem to be the opposite of communication.

Anyone else who has answered the above question has come to the same conclusion.

Does this make the garda right? Not by what has been reported (although the video might shed more light).

Instead there's two asses in the situation. By being, in my opinion, deliberately awkward and obtuse, he loses any sympathy I may otherwise have had for him in the situation

fat bloke · 16-09-2022 11:59am

Looshe de hahhichood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPISMWa0SMU

16-09-2022 3:28pm

The RSA's approach to road safety as illustrated by a dog

https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1570772935165775874?s=20&t=qhlyippgeT8of-YG5wwxGQ

CramCycle · 16-09-2022 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625459#Comment_119625459

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625009#Comment_119625009

But I am pretty sure, like many people, he is incorrect in his assumption that he can get every interaction with a Garda in Irish on the spot. This is not the law, or at least, how the law is applied. He can demand this and if the Garda cannot fufill this duty, they can escort the person to a Garda station and wait for an interpreter. He is well within his rights to ask for it. The Garda is well within their rights to ask him to dismount in a situation they deem it is unsafe or dangerous for them to continue cycling.

Until that video appears, I imagine we are all guessing at which side, or both or neither, were acting the b*ll*cks. I suspect it may have been both but appreciate that is not possible to determine on the unverified version of events presented.

I imagine that if he had used a modicum of common sense this would have been a non issue. He clearly understood the Garda and therefore while English might not be his first language he was capable of interacting through English. State that, apologies, but cyclists are allowed but he appreciates that there are pedestrians and will dismount, or some such civilised sentence. Or write into the Super, as gaeilge if he wishes, and explain that they should inform the uniforms that cyclists are allowed cycle there and so on. On the same note, the Garda could have apologised that he was not a fluent speaker, and that he could give him the option of continuing through English or excorting him to the nearest station to get a fluent speaker to explain what was happening.

Thelonious Monk · 16-09-2022 11:20pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/16/luis-enrique-bike-ride-announce-latest-spain-squad

I always loved this guy, slick af and apparently still in amazing shape for his age I think he does triathlons.

I think they've a good chance of winning the copa mundial too.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2022 11:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119627707#Comment_119627707

"The Garda is well within their rights to ask him to dismount in a situation they deem it is unsafe or dangerous for them to continue cycling."

Yeah, that's certainly true, but if they told him to dismount and cited the reason that it was a pedestrian street, as he alleges, they can't really plausibly later claim that the real rationale was the volume of pedestrians. Again, bad-minded as I might be, I think the gardaí probably have been misled by the media coverage, and think it's a pedestrianized street (he says they were telling other people to stop cycling), and then wouldn't back down and look at the signage when he pushed back, or at least wouldn't acknowledge the contents of the signs ("without explaining why there were signs on the street indicating that cycling was permitted").

I don't doubt that his initial insistence on having the conversation in Irish raised the temperature of the interaction, especially given so many people's complex relationship with the language and with years of mandatory lessons, and often feelings of shame for lacking proficiency after all that. But all the same, it's not actually hard to politely decline the request, and controlling your pique in very low-stake scenarios like this isn't an unreasonable expectation.

tomasrojo · 17-09-2022 11:12am

Maybe not the right thread but traffic disruption in Sandymount is back in the news.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jackfire13/status/1571059798959067137

Duckjob · 17-09-2022 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630075#Comment_119630075

Compared to the works in Fairview, I'll be a bit more difficult for the mouth-foamers to link these works to "dem cyclists". I've no doubt some will still take a crack at it though.

AndrewJRenko · 17-09-2022 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119620675#Comment_119620675

I'm not sure that both-sidesing is an appropriate tactic here. The cyclist's only obligation is to obey the law, which he seems to have been doing. The Garda's obligation is to enforce the law, which he seems to have dramatically over-reached on, and has abused his position to enforce his personal preferences, rather than the law. His colleagues did the same with their clumsy GDPR tactic.

AndrewJRenko · 17-09-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625080#Comment_119625080

Why would he or anyone need to declare a benefit? It's his choice. Do you expect to have to justify every decision you made with a benefit analysis?

cletus · 17-09-2022 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631008#Comment_119631008

The article was published on a public website, and subsequently linked here, an internet forum for discussion. As such, I'm pretty sure that I can make any comment, or ask any question I choose about said article.

Apart for that, I don't really have any intention in discussing this with you at all Andrew. I tried that in a previous thread, and I found you to be disingenuous, needlessly combative, and in general somebody who argues in bad faith

CramCycle · 17-09-2022 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630997#Comment_119630997

Until I hear both sides or see unbiased proof, bothsiding it as you say is the fairest thing to do. Someone took a video that no one has published, Cians article never mentions seeing it, just that the person seen it and told him about it (why he needed a video when he was there seemed odd). Surprised he published it without more to be honest. I have met plenty of Gardai who are wrong, who have issues and plenty who can be talked to and see sense. His version may be bang on but that's not how journalism works. I have plenty of real world experience that makes his version more than believable but also enough to know it's possible that his version isn't 100% to the impartial observer. I'd sooner know the truth before kicking someone doing there job because someone felt they were entitled when they may not actually have been.

PaulieC · 18-09-2022 7:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630491#Comment_119630491

The water works are just a tactic to punish those who objected to the cycle infrastructure. Also a cover for installing it next year. I was told this yesterday.

buffalo · 18-09-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119632893#Comment_119632893

I always knew the all powerful cycling lobby controlled DCC, but Irish Water is a new addition. I don't understand why they didn't take over the RSA instead though.

Grassey · 18-09-2022 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633125#Comment_119633125

Unable to find their offices, clad as they are in dayglo.

18-09-2022 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633125#Comment_119633125

One quango at a time

JMcL · 19-09-2022 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623999#Comment_119623999

The one that springs to my mind is a lad I was in college with in the late 80s that was of somewhat a republican outlook as well as being a fluent Irish speaker. He rocked up at a protest somewhere down the country that got a bit heated with the result that a bunch of them were arrested and landed in court. He'd given his name in Irish (and in fairness it was the name he went by on a day to day basis), and when the judge ask "Are you X?" he replied "NÍ hé mise" and walked free. They hadn't spelled his name properly on the charge sheet and hadn't bothered to clarify the spelling

21-09-2022 4:18pm

Seems pretty clear cut despite wat DublinTown say

https://www.thejournal.ie/capel-street-public-consultation-majority-support-5872214-Sep2022/

zell12 · 22-09-2022 3:03pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/female-cyclist-rushed-to-hospital-after-collision-with-truck-in-celbridge-co-kildare-42009496.html

Gardaí and emergency services were alerted to a collision involving a truck and cyclist at 8am on Shackleton Road, Celbridge.

Hurrache · 23-09-2022 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630075#Comment_119630075

It's absolute nonsense that this is a story. Anyone who takes in the areas around Ashbourne/Ratoath/Kilbride/Dunboyne on their cycles and travels will be aware of the sheer volume of long term road closures lately due to similar works with some pretty big diversions. Somehow the locals manage to get on with their life.