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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    For what purpose ?

    If it was for your backtracking on gas plants, or your increasingly desperate attempts to defend Ryan leaving yourself looking as foolish as he is, there is no need . Your doing just fine on your own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Really ?

    There are quite a few renewable energy companies that have been doing financially very nicely out of this green ideology at the expense of the ordinary Joe and Josephine Soap`s.

    Quite a few countries as well that have shown that where their economies are concerned, catering to green ideology tech is their priority rather than following Ryan`s naive example and wrecking them.

    But you are correct in one sense. It is a crazy batshit upside down world. But one that has been rendered so by the narrow mindset of green ideology.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    There’s a lot of, no clue and probably in that statement.

    So we are going to impose massive debts on people and governments for the purpose of probably and no clue?



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Oh i agree. I actually meant right here on the forum. There are some classic examples who are the most frequent posters as well..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know if this has been covered before but I see that incinerator in Limerick for Irish Cement has been given the go ahead. Why doesn't the green party or his band of cronies put a stop to it if they care so much about the environment. Irish Cement probably bought Eamon a new bike.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    All good questions, I'd be interested in the answers so let me know what you find out



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    40cm of rainwater in a few hours in Italy is supposed to be an extremely rare event



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We've already caused this. What we need to do is stop these events from getting more and more common and even more extreme. We're at 1.2c of warming now and on track to get to 3c unless we massive increase our efforts to stop climate change



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Those nasty greens being mean to your beloved fossil fuel sector. You can't bring yourself to say a negative word against them....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Define "rare". I have no problem with a quick Google finding an even more extreme event 30 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    A case of choose your battles perhaps? Irish cement Ltd, is owned by Cement Roadstone Holdings (CRH). CRH PLC is Irelands largest indigenous public company, many members of the Irish establishment own shares in this company.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    tom1ie:

    Would that stop these events happening?

    How much will it cost to stop GHG?

    How many will it push into economic poverty?


    DaCor: All good questions, I'd be interested in the answers so let me know what you find out


    Happy to help out...

    1. Nothing would stop these events happening as they are not unprecedented. However, a serious shock to the economy could make us less resilient in dealing with them.
    2. Nobody will produce a costed plan for GHG reduction. However, if we extrapolate from the Irish government's finger-in-the-air of a couple of years back, then the first 50% reduction will cost 125 trillion dollars, or 150% of global GDP. After that -- to quote Akrasia from this board -- it gets exponentially more expensive. Ironically -- given the infeasibility of such a cost -- you would have to hope the Irish are being seriously ripped off by Green vested interests. And you'd probably be right.
    3. It depends how you do it. All food growth, transport and processing, and every other aspect of the economy, depends on access to cheap, abundant, energy. If you transition to an even cheaper more abundant form of energy, life gets better. If you go with our current level of renewables penetration, energy gets more expensive and people get poorer. It you attempt a precipitous transition and block all fossil fuels immediately, you will not just push people into economic poverty, you will kill tens of millions if not more. To see the carrying capacity of the planet without current forms of energy you just have to look back to before the industrial revolution. Seven out of eight people alive today would have to die.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wait,do you expect me to answer every question for you, yeah soz, not your slave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Rather than finger in the air figures pulled put of your ass, there is a very recent study on the cost of rapid transition to renewables

    According to a study released this week the cost is actually a saving of 'many' trillions by 2050

    Given that you originally thought that it would cost 125 trillion to transition to Clean energy, and it turns out it's actually going to save trillions of euros to do so, should you revise your opinion on this matter?

    "Compared to continuing with a fossil fuel-based system, a rapid green energy transition will likely result in overall net savings of many trillions of dollars—even without accounting for climate damages or co-benefits of climate policy."



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Unlike you not everyone gazes at the world through magic green glasses and sees imaginary money trees.

    We are going to need fossil fuels for a long time to come, so grow a pair and except it. While you are doing that at least attempt to get a basic understanding of economics, budgets and design for worst case scenarios rather than vague hopium.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    And hearings are ongoing in the US at the moment about how the fossil fuel companies deliberately spent decades trying to hamper efforts to tackle climate change

    Not that anyone who hasn't their head buried in the sand doesn't already know this...




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Why are you so mysterious? Why not post the link to your findings? I searched for Italian flash flood 1992 and nothing came back

    In the Italian flooding a few days ago, up to 420mm of rain fell in between 2 and 4 hours.

    There was a flood in France in 1992 where 220mm of rain fell in 3 hours which was responsible for severe flooding, but this event in Italy was another level above that in terms of intensity of rainfall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The reason we are so hooked on fossil fuels is linked to the fact that they spent decades sabotaging efforts to transition to renewable carbon neutral energy.

    You want us to let them continue to do this for many decades into the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    And to those who think climate scientists are making it up as they go, or that activists and environmentalists just attribute everything to climate change

    Here's a study from 5 years ago that states in no uncertain terms that as climate change continues to warm the planet, Rainstorms will get more intense at an almost exponential rate (at very extreme temperatures, this will tail off, but by then we'll be fairly comprehensively screwed so it doesn't matter anymore)


    Here's a 2021 open access paper from nature focusing on Japan but the same principle applies

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-021-00184-9



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    How soon until houses in Clontarf, Santymount, Portmarnock, Howth completely lose their value ?

    These areas will be not under water but could be permanently flooded with the incoming tide.

    I'm wondering if the banks have considedered stopping lending money to people from around these areas for mortgages or loans with the house as collateral.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You can see the flood risk for each area here

    The banks may not be directly looking at flood risk, but insurance companies definitely are.

    The banks don't care as long as the house is insured, if you can't get insurance, you'll likely not be able to get a mortgage. If your insurance cover lapses, you'll be in breach of the terms of your mortgage and may attract fees or penalties

    Post edited by Akrasia on


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,355 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    The incoming tide.


    Have you an date and time for this so we can warn the inhabitants who have being dealing with floods for 100s of years in Clontarf?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Will you organise gathering everyone together while i look after the announcement speech.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,355 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Just as I thought.


    Scaremongering over floods in Clontarf that have been happening for 100s of years because they live beside the sea.

    All of a sudden it’s climate change causing them.

    Brainwashed nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    lol someone posts a link world half lava. Now it's flooded. Are we going to be underwater and on fire ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    "All of the temperature measurements have shown warming except for the very upper atmosphere which is cooling (and this is what we would expect from an increasing greenhouse effect as less heat is radiated out to space)Akrasia"


    Gee, thanks for the science lesson, professor. 😏


    "an increase in greenhouses gases like carbon dioxide means more heat is lost to space — and the upper atmosphere coolsNASA"


    You never posted a link to that quote but here's the sentence immediately before your quotation

    "That means little of Earth's heat makes it to the higher, thinner mesosphere. There, molecules are few and far between."

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2021/nasa-satellites-see-upper-atmosphere-cooling-contracting-climate-change

    I consider this proof that you're arguing in bad faith

    LOL. Lighten up, I was ribbing you. You and NASA are both wrong. There is neither more nor less heat being lost to space. The Earth is in thermodynamic equilibrium. Everything that comes in must go out (bar the negligible amount that temporarily contributes to ocean warming), even if the equilibrium temperature in the lower atmosphere is increasing. Since the heat flux is constant the only way the upper atmosphere can cool is by either expanding, or increasing its emissivity, both of which are true to some extent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    As for your previous post. Not once did you address the increased rainfall which is the root of the issue.

    Uh, I did address it ... by pointing out that increased rainfall is not at the root of the issue in Pakistan. Lack of infrastructure, preparedness, and resilience are at the root of the issue as pointed out in the multiple articles I referenced. (Did you bother to read them?). Are you telling me that a richer country couldn't deal with these problems? China spent well over a hundred billion dollars on flood preparedness in 2017 alone. In any case, if they can't deal with floods by adaptation, they can't deal with them full stop. Their biggest loss of life from a flooding event was over seventy years ago. The most lethal event (flooding plus tropical cyclone) was sixty years ago. Deaths per capita from flooding events are way down in recent years when you consider that the population has increased five-fold in 75 years.

    Your use of Pakistan's woes as a battering ram are noted, and sickening. Your claims that those woes must be solved by mitigating climate change globally are pathetic. They would be incomparably better off if they burned a billion tonnes of coal annually and put the energy to good use. I'm not suggesting they should (there are better things to burn than coal), just that energy use and affluence are inextricably linked. Poor people don't give a rats ass about climate change mitigation -- they have bigger problems on their hands. They particularly don't care about Ireland's virtue signalling to the world, which will reduce global warming by 0.0°C. Ireland is not helping Pakistan or itself.

    Some day you will realise that the only thing that is going to reduce GHG emissions is low-carbon energy that is better than what we have now. (Hint: it isn't windmills).

    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Why so mysterious? Because I'm not your Google slave, as your fellow Greenie on here is fond of pointing out. But since you asked so nicely:

    • flash flooding occurs in Tuscany every single year, in fact more than once per year.
    • 86 disastrous rainfall events in the 73 years from 1918 to 1990.
    • 582 flood events along 170 different rivers.
    • 19th June 1996, Pomezzana: 480mm of rain in half a day, with 350mm in two hours.
    • Refs: [1], [2], [3]
    • You're welcome.


    Post edited by ps200306 on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    I saw that reported on the BBC a few days ago. Thanks for the link to the actual study.

    Given that you originally thought that it would cost 125 trillion to transition to Clean energy, and it turns out it's actually going to save trillions of euros to do so, should you revise your opinion on this matter?

    Yes, if it holds water it would be very significant. A few things give pause for caution. The "experience" curve for wind (Figure 2) shows the cost per MWh in 2020 being about a tenth of the price we just paid in our RESS 2 auction. How does that make sense? Also our costs are up 30% in two years, which is a long way from the "Moore's Law" they propose, in fact it's going the wrong direction. They say they've factored in commodity costs but I don't see anything that deals with the current run up in copper prices to which renewables are particularly sensitive. I believe they are over-optimistic about batteries, and their fast transition involves whole new economies for hydrogen, ammonia, and PEM which look crazy optimistic to me. In short, it's a purely statistical model which is only as good as its assumptions, and some of them already look dodgy. That said, I will absolutely keep an open mind on this and look out for further analyses. Hopefully you will keep an eye on what's actually happening on the ground (e.g. our local costs going up).



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