What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire · 18-09-2022 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633044#Comment_119633044

The problem Achwel, is that anyone should be flying off any buildings at all, for any reason, let alone because of their sexual orientation. ditto stoning as a punishment for the "crime" of "Adultery", or the host of other "offences or crimes" decided by a man who lived in the 6th century. He banned pigs because he became sick after eating spoiled pork ( Bacteria not being understood , back then,) so for eternity, Muslims are forbidden to eat pork. For sure, quite a lot of Mohammads passages in the Quran, were personal and nothing to do with his supposed conversations with the Angel Gabriel. Sharia Law has no place a non-Muslim country. People confuse Islam with being "just another religion". Nothing could be further from the truth....for a practicing Muslim, Islam, his religion is literally everything... something to die or kill for. It's his politics, his military, and it's his very life.

Absolute Zero · 18-09-2022 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617064#Comment_119617064

It is owned by a Chinese company

AckwelFoley · 18-09-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633084#Comment_119633084

Of course nobody should be flying off buildings for being gay, but again, Christianity doesn't exactly have a smashing record with treating pregnant unmarried mothers well, not to mention gay people. But can we judge a billion Muslims on the actions of a few headcases in Pakistan.

Islam is a way of life as you say, but that way of life varies incredibly. Again, Christianity is a way of life to some, and lesser to others and not at all to more that would consider themselves Christians, but plenty examples of way of life living by the Bible today.

There's a figure that is out there, something like 80% of Pakistani Muslims in the British Midlands marry either their first or second cousin, incredibly high levels of health problems associated with it and showing in the community,but that's a custom more specific to British Pakistani rather than a 1 billion world wide Islamic law.

People are usually the probem

jmreire · 18-09-2022 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633126#Comment_119633126

It's the religion thats the problem Ackwel. Since its inception in the 6th century. Islam has not changed, and never can change...that's the problem. And yes, I'm aware of what the Catholic Church did here in Ireland, I'm a product of it. None the less, a light has been shone on it, and investigations are ongoing. So change has and is taking place. Re arranged marriages in Islam. Yes, that's how it's done, I've been a guest at many Muslim Weddings, and they were all arranged. And the most of them work out fine too, but I've heard of ones that did not work out, and then it's simply " I divorce you" three times, end of story. I don't know anything about the degree of kindred in Muslim marriages though. In rural areas in Afghanistan, in the villages etc. all of the kids who will eventually marry each other, will have grown up together until puberty separates them. So in one sense, the already know each other. Also, two friends ( men) who have become firm friends and who marry, and both their wives get pregnant. They will make a pact that if one wife is carrying a boy, and the other a girl, that they be engaged to each other in the womb. But the majority of arranged marriages will be through intermediaries. At least in the Irish Matchmaking tradition, the matchmakers were required to know the family history of the proposed matches, to prevent close relations getting married. Now if you would like to go and live amongst a few million Muslims ( not even a billion) as an un believer, you go right ahead, and see how do you like the Islamic Life as an unbeliever. It's quite a different experience from working and having a social life here in Ireland with Muslim colleagues.....chalk and cheese different.

AckwelFoley · 18-09-2022 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633236#Comment_119633236

We might be arguing chicken and egg, but take Islam and Christianity out of it, there are what we would perceive as ghastly traditions in cultures all over the globe, more often that not always done in the name of a god or spirit. As I've said, I'm pretty steadfast on the "people are crazy" as opposed to blaming on one specific text or way of life.

The multiculturalism issues now raising their head in Sweden isn't down to religion its down to a generation of large influx of people from poor countries that are now living in gettos

Nothing wrong with a bit of mixed culture, but uncontrolled influx never ends well

jmreire · 18-09-2022 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633279#Comment_119633279

Here in Ireland, Christianity was taken out of the equation at least 50 + years ago. In Europe for much longer than that. But it's impossible to remove Islam, because it's much more than a religion....much much more. To a practicing Muslim, Islam is everything. Its Life itself. How many other cultures to you hear about with the same level of integration problems as Muslims? You can be damn sure that Islam, the religion is a part of the problem.

Wibbs · 18-09-2022 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633311#Comment_119633311

A lot of it comes down to some fundamental differences between the faiths. Now throughout its history Christianity was very much involved in and drove politics, mostly as an "EU" of sorts after Rome fell in the West. There was the secular politic that was more local within Europe and the Europe wide Church politic that traversed borders and acted in many ways as a political "glue" and often a brake on too much division across Europe(and later in her colonies). That started to fade after the Reformation, but it was a very powerful political and unifying force. The Roman Catholic Church is well named.

However from the get go and even as the second string of European culture and politics there was the idea and a strong one of the distinction between and a seperation of the Church and state. This was the case even in law. You had state law and church law. It's set down even in the words of the faith's founder; "My kingdom is not of this earth/give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" and the like.

Islam is quite different on this score. The church is the state. More, because unlike Christianity before the Reformation, Islam isn't a centralised church, the centre is the Quran(and the Hadith). This makes it far more self protective and far less open to change. Reformation was possible in Christianity for many reasons. For a start the faith's books were seen as inspired by God and far more open to interpretation. In Islam the book is the direct word of God and while interpretation is most certainly in play on the fringes there is a lot less wriggle room around the basics. Even the debates on historicity within the Christian works which have been in play since the 17th century(at least), quite simply couldn't happen within Islam. It's out of bounds within Islamic scholarship. Outside of Islamic scholarship it's an area which can prove dangerous.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633044#Comment_119633044

Islam had many influences. The pig thing is down to absorbing Judaism, the biggest influence of all. Both Islam and Christianity are Judaism 2.0 in essence, but were coded in different backgrounds. Christianity bumped into and was massively influenced by the Greco-Roman world, culture and philosophies. Two things were dropped right outa the gate; circumcision, because the Roman world considered that the practice of barbarians and food restrictions, because, well you try and separate an Italian from his ham, lobster, shellfish and rabbit. 😁 Plus because the Greek/Roman pantheon of deities was so large the newly minted Church came up with saints to replace them. Mary who is barely mentioned in the texts became far more important in the newly minted Church because they needed the heavenly feminine they were used to in their old faiths, but which was very much lacking in Judaism.

Islam was more Middle Eastern anyway, closer to the culture and philosophies of that region so kept both these directives. Though it was most certainly influenced by Eastern Greek thought, the description of the Heavens in the Quran a good example.

18-09-2022 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633044#Comment_119633044

If every Muslim lived by "the islamic way" there would be gays flying off buildings every 3 seconds.

Hardly. We still have our own values and the desire to be the kind of person we want to be. Just as we don't always follow the laws of our country, while still being loyal/supportive of that country. Just as while there are laws against discrimination or homophobia in Ireland, there will continue to be people who believe that way, even though they might not act upon it, except when talking to like minded people.

You mention its the religious leaders that hold influence and not so much the book, quite true, but, if we cast out mind back to the not to distant past we in this country put unquestionable faith in religious leaders and that didn't serve us well.

Actually, I referred to those who interpret the book. The scholars... not the religious leaders. They could be the same person, but usually they're not. Not sure where the disagreement is between us though.

18-09-2022 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633279#Comment_119633279

The multiculturalism issues now raising their head in Sweden isn't down to religion its down to a generation of large influx of people from poor countries that are now living in gettos

It will be for some though. Islam is particularly popular in very underdeveloped regions, as is Christianity both being forms that aren't terribly common within native western culture. "Our" Christianity has had to change to stay relevant to a more sophisticated and educated population. Whereas if you see Christianity as it's practiced in rural areas of the M.East or Africa, they could be entirely different religions. These still being religions (both Christianity, and Islam) that have direct influence over birth control, the perception of marriage and children, gender roles, etc. and also, politics.

All of which may come into friction with the general notions of normal living in Western nations as they stand today. Some migrants will want to assimilate Western cultural norms and create a fusion between their respective beliefs. Many others won't though.

As for why they're living in Ghettos, probably they shouldn't have been accepted in the first place. That's the bad management by governments in listening to demands for cheap labour, or the demands that we "help" those immigrants, even though they're poorly equipped to live in a first world nation.

Nothing wrong with a bit of mixed culture, but uncontrolled influx never ends well

There needs to be a dominant/strongest culture in place to provide stability, and direction for social evolution..

18-09-2022 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634027#Comment_119634027

You might want to reread what I posted (both of them) because you're coming off rather confused, considering your response.

As for the rest, what? Where did I get annoyed at people who were too extreme for my extremism? And where did I get "upset"?

Um. Utterly bizarre post.

Annasopra · 18-09-2022 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634059#Comment_119634059

You clearly try quite a lot to get others to downplay and temper their extremism. You know there are different levels of extremism. You have acknowledged it quite a lot. You were annoyed enough to comment about others comments on your post. And yet there you are above now backtracking on everything you've said.

18-09-2022 4:08pm

I haven't back-tracked even slightly on my position. Just because you propose that something happened, doesn't mean that it has.

Now, since pointing any of that out is getting personal (per the mods), I'm going to ignore you from now on.

Geert von Instetten · 18-09-2022 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634099#Comment_119634099

A difference of perspective doubtlessly, but the determination of the two opinions as varying forms of “extremism” is one that is reducible to a personal opinion, one which is equally open to being categorised as “extreme”, after all, political determination is dependent on public consensus and the extent to which the opinions of Annasopra represent public consensus on this or that issue is, at least doubtful. To what extent are they extreme then? Extreme to Annaspora or extreme to the Irish public? If extreme to Annaspora then, with respect, who cares?

1800_Ladladlad · 19-09-2022 10:58am

I'm seeing videos of muslim and hindu mobs wearing masks or balaclavas, clashing on the streets of Leicester armed with machetes and bats. All sorts being hurled. Yesterday a muslim mob were allowed to march in the streets screaming allsorts threats and insults, while being ushered by police. Last night videos showed hindu temple being targeted by a mob of muslim men while police attempted to control the situation. While hindus outnumber muslims in Leicester, in India that same fact did not stop the direct action day & partition of the country. It didn't stop attacks on Kashmiri pandits & them becoming refugees in their own country. The parents of these young men come to the Uk and European countries for a better life, yet they bring their centuries-old hostilities with them, the parents often being the ones who instill these hostilities in them. Being the fuel that encourages these street battles between religious and nationalistic rivalries. Another unforunate example of the multiculturalistic creed.

Dyr · 19-09-2022 1:55pm

We have so much catching up to do with the rest of Europe on our multicultural path.

https://twitter.com/MartinDaubney/status/1571417308509216768

Cordell · 19-09-2022 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636744#Comment_119636744

Well the brits separated them because they wouldn't stop killing each other, so what did they expect them to do over there? Forget all that hatred just because they are in a civilized country now? Really?

1800_Ladladlad · 19-09-2022 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637558#Comment_119637558

According to an Islamist preacher on a soapbox with a megaphone who is from outside Leicester is blaming the police for the violence because they were allowing Hindus to walk down certain roads ...should people of other faiths and creeds be afraid to walk down "their streets" that they seem to claim their own. The council should have put up signs, to be honest. Everything would be ok then of course.

Cordell · 19-09-2022 8:52pm

Apparently it was all over of a cricket match, because it can't be that people who kill each other over there in SE Asia won't do the same here. Because, reasons.

xxxxxxl · 19-09-2022 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639272#Comment_119639272

Pakistan vs India then ?

Cordell · 19-09-2022 9:02pm

Yes, maybe its time for another partition :)

1800_Ladladlad · 20-09-2022 9:39am

A Slovakian national who was only in the country 6 weeks, has been charged with aggravated burglary & assault causing harm after stabbing a woman during a robbery in Tralee. The chap didn't have a word of English and needed an interpreter. This is absolutely mental.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/man-charged-with-stabbing-woman-in-tralee-remanded-in-custody-41986617.html

20-09-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640509#Comment_119640509

The Australian way of doing things, and what the Brits are trying (seemingly in vain) to do with their Rwanda policy, is looking more and more like the right thing to do. These people need to be held offshore until they are adequately assessed and allowed into the country.

Luxembourgo · 20-09-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640539#Comment_119640539

He's from the EU though, wouldn't have stopped it.

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-09-2022 9:40pm

just watched a segment on the Nine O Clock news there about the complete lack of student accommodation for students in UCD

first two up for interview were non Irish

next up was literally a clown on a unicycle

the last two being interviewed were two Irish who had to get up in the middle of the night to travel to lectures

can our so called brightest and best not put two and two together?

Jarhead_Tendler · 21-09-2022 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119648258#Comment_119648258

Oh did McEntee have anything to say when interviewed? I hope she managed to stay on her unicycle

Real Donald Trump · 21-09-2022 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119648258#Comment_119648258

Be careful stating facts, that might get you in trouble.

Cordell · 25-09-2022 3:46pm

Italy is setting up to have the first far right government since WW2 so yet another victory for multiculturalism and unchecked non European immigration.

Miadhc · 26-09-2022 3:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663269#Comment_119663269

It won't make a blind bit of difference in Italy.

Brothers of Italy aren't what the media are making them out to be.

EOQRTL · 26-09-2022 7:28am

https://news.sky.com/story/italys-democratic-party-concedes-defeat-after-exit-poll-puts-far-right-politician-giorgia-meloni-on-course-to-win-12705507

Multiculturalism doesn't work.

Cordell · 26-09-2022 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665153#Comment_119665153

If anything the results in Sweden and Italy should show that across Europe people have had enough of this multiculturalism experiment and they would like it stopped and ideally reversed.

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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