Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - Read OP

Quitelife · 20-09-2022 10:50pm

Last nights ramming of garda cars shows how lawless our country is becoming .

The judges and free legal aid solicitors of Ireland deserve special mention for our countries scumm been allowed destroy our communities & Irish society

StrawbsM · 20-09-2022 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644166#Comment_119644166

Firstly and most importantly, I hope your child is ok.

On topic, I’ve heard of the area but I live in the North West of the country so I don’t know the area. What makes it deprived?

walshb · 20-09-2022 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644222#Comment_119644222

Yes, but didn’t you hear? It’s not the fault of the people in the area. It’s societies fault for letting them down.

walshb · 20-09-2022 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644253#Comment_119644253

It’s not deprived. That’s just the usual bleedin hearts trying to justify why criminality happens. Plenty plenty people from similar areas that are not scumbags. It’s a people issue!

Hellrazer · 20-09-2022 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644253#Comment_119644253

When it was built it was 100% social housing, a very high proportion of single parent families, rampant drug use, very little amenities, massive unemployment among 18-25 year olds and just a general sense of the people being thrown there without much thought for their well being.

Now in saying that the area in recent years has some of the best strategies in place to alleviate this sense of being deprived. There are a lot of youth based services and community based projects in place but yet its still a place that I wouldnt walk into during the day never mind at night.

Its a minority thats causing all this trouble but the ordinary decent people who just want to live in peace are terrified to open their mouths to the relevant authorities to get these scum out or arrested for fear of being targeted by the scum.

Sandor Clegane · 20-09-2022 11:20pm

Our weak justice system and punishments is only one aspect of the problem, at the heart of it these lads are brought up as scumbags, scumbag parents making scumbag kids, then those kids go on to have children of their own and they turn into scumbags too, it's a cycle and barring forced sterilization then it'll never end.

But society shouldn't have to put up with it either, habitual criminals and families need to be locked up with massive sentences handed out to repeat offenders, nobody with double digit convictions should be walking around making life miserable for normal people.

As I said it wont deal with the root cause but it'd be a start.

Strumms · 20-09-2022 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643024#Comment_119643024

I don’t blame the non intervention of shoppers or any passerby. Security guard about as useful as a cock flavoured lollipop. Prancing around like Wilberforce Claybourne Humphries..

You don’t have to even go near her ffs…just pick up a chair, bounce it off the little cûnts head, kick her in the head remove the knife and call the Gardai…The victim is bound to be scared for life, could have been blinded, or if that knife inadvertently ended up in her neck.. a lot worse then the above…as it could easily have, that’s very evident from the video.

bokale · 20-09-2022 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644278#Comment_119644278

But if it was a pure people issue would it not be evenly dispersed across the country.

Potential-Monke · 21-09-2022 12:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644356#Comment_119644356

That's exactly what should happen. But if it did happen, knife wielding scumbagette could have the security guard arrested for (and most likely convicted of) assault. She'd sue Spar for it happening in there and get a hape of money and spend it all on drugs and drink and knives and repeat... People are rightly reluctant to get involved. I always thought I'd still do the hero thing once I left AGS. Nope! Just don't know who the people involved are, what they're capable of doing. Best to ring the Gardai and hope they're not being rammed by pricky teens in a stolen car so they can respond.

Anyone who disagrees with that yoke wielding the knife being taken down as hard as possible are part of the problem. If you brandish a knife in anger towards someone and it's not self defence, imo, you no longer have rights and should be dealt with there and then. But I'm also really anti-human these days.

Strumms · 21-09-2022 12:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644478#Comment_119644478

Yeah is some craic that people are , or sorry some people are trying to portray, violent, aggressive, out of control scumbags as somehow victims who should be politely handcuffed and helped…

conorhal · 21-09-2022 1:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643621#Comment_119643621

That entirely depends on how far out to sea we're talking about.

Killinator · 21-09-2022 6:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644509#Comment_119644509

Handcuffs are considered a 'use of force'. Can't be having that!

walshb · 21-09-2022 6:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644373#Comment_119644373

I agree. Less affluent areas will see (percentage wise) more criminality and anti social behavior. But it’s still the people in the areas.

They make intentional choices to be anti social, criminal and thuggish. Then, the defenders and bleedin hearts want to try find others to blame. Simple: there will always be different people, areas, jobs, views etc. We’ll never have a society where we all live in affluent and idyllic locations. Never. So people need to stfu about “deprived” areas and people in them being let down, and simply deal with the scum element in these areas, and leave the rest a the people to live in peace.

Plenty people in these less affluent areas are living their lives without being menaces to society.

The fixes are in place: their implementation and uses are failing. The justice systems dealing with repeat scum behaviour is D single biggest issue facing society from a criminal aspect. This failure is clear to see by people, and it leads to certain people having eff all respect for and fear for the law and its repercussions.

People make a location: you could put certain people into the most wonderful locations, and the locations won’t change, but the conditions and treatment of the area will. People issue!

hynesie08 · 21-09-2022 6:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644356#Comment_119644356

I don’t blame the non intervention of shoppers or any passerby. Security guard about as useful as a cock flavoured lollipop. Prancing around like Wilberforce Claybourne Humphries..

Fair play to you being willing to be slashed for 11.65 an hour, most sensible people wouldn't be though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644478#Comment_119644478

Anyone who disagrees with that yoke wielding the knife being taken down as hard as possible are part of the problem.

I'd have a very big smile on my face if that video ended with her sparked out on the floor, But I'm not going to criticize anyone who's not willing to tackle a blade wielding scumbag.

21-09-2022 7:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643092#Comment_119643092

Alas - very easy to say and type on the internet from the safety of one's keyboard. Especially in a country where most of the keyboard warriors have probably never been in a fight in their life - or at most a school yard happy slap up in their youth. It is patently obvious the two girls in that video have absolutely zero combat training or ability either. Calling them even remotely competent would be like calling a new born calf trying to stand up "Ballet".

But there is a lot more going on in a situation like that that simply stepping in and disarming a girl with a knife.

Firstly - in the moment - you are surrounded by any number of strangers who may be in some way associated with the girl in question. Who may very well step in and intervene in your attempted intervention. This may escalate and you may end up getting hurt, maimed or even killed. It was not that long ago that people were posting Twitter clips of a near riot in Temple Bar. One might fancy their chances against a relatively little girl with a small blade - especially if they are Bruce Lee in their as yet untested imagination. But when two hardened mates step in things change and escalate quickly. Nor do you know what weapons they might produce. We also do not know the situations of any of those men in that moment either. Were they there with loved ones that in that moment it is their primary focus to protect?

Secondly - after the moment - there is the legal incentives and disincentives to contend with. Attempts to use violence to stop violence can quickly bring charges or court cases against the would be hero. Especially if an innocent bystander gets hurt or wounded as an unintended consequence of the intended intervention. Or the property of the shop gets damaged. Or worst of all if the final fatal swing of the knife of X against Y happened just as your own hand lands in intervention and now you have to convince the courts that your hand landing there did not cause a fatality that might not have otherwise occurred. You may even life the rest of your own life second guessing that and suffering guilt you can never alleviate. Or a lack of competence in combat means that if you stand in to take down a smaller female - you could kill her. You might not at all mean to kill her - but it is surprisingly easy to kill people by accident. Especially in adrenaline fueled situations. Even the most competent person can kill someone.

Any keyboard ninja who imagines themselves stepping in competently disarming a flailing knife with no training and no previous combat experience can shout the word "coward" from afar for sure. But I think it is at best disingenuous. Even someone like myself with 15 years + of martial arts and combat training - including how to use and defend against a knife - would be very hesitant to step in a situation like that. And cowardice would be the very last reason the list for this.

There are highly trained combatants in the world who are anything but cowards who say similar. You would be hard pushed to call Jokko Willink a coward for example and get taken at all seriously. But here are two videos from him discussing public confrontations:

youtube.com/watch?v=Kba8PZwzS0Y

youtube.com/watch?v=SLHx691Jt-Y

I stepped in on a less adrenaline fueled situation once actually. It was much more controlled and much less public. I've spoken about it a few times before and how it ended up and how happy I am in retrospect. But also in retrospect it was a really stupid thing I did. I could have ended up - or one of the lads in the group could have ended up - hurt, maimed, or killed. Or I could have ended up in prison even though the situation I manipulated was one of (contrived) self defense on my part. It was a power play I came out on top in but it was thinking back on it dumb stupid bravado that just happened to turn out very well indeed.

21-09-2022 7:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644166#Comment_119644166

I fear you are being a little disingenuous here to the other users. Firstly I do not think the users are - as you say here - claiming to have "never heard of" that area. They are telling you they do not know the specifics about that area. Totally different thing.

Secondly though - I grew up in Clontarf and have lived now many years in the area of Maynooth - and to be honest I am the same as the other users here. Aside from vaugely knowing there is some kind of Train Station near by - that is literally the sum total of my knowledge of the area Cherry Orchard. I do not know how deprived they are or are not either. I do not know what facilities they do or do not have. I could tell you pretty much nothing about the area.

So I do not think people claiming similar are automatically proving they have no interest in a valid or involved conversation with you. In fact I think you might risk - by responding in this way - being the one that strongly comes off looking to everyone like you have no interest in engaging with the conversation here. And I doubt that is your intention?

Get well soon to the child - hope it's nothing serious.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642922#Comment_119642922

Jail time is a funny one though when it comes to the idea of a "deterrent". Like many on the thread I too am often aghast at how many convictions and suspended actions a person can get before they see the inside of a prison. But at the same time I do wonder how much of a "deterrent" jail time actually is.

I think an interesting pair of people to listen to on this are "the two Norries" which are a couple of ex-cons from Cork who are recovering drug and alcohol addicts. They have turned into very articulate and interesting and upstanding pillars of community. And one of the things they talk about in quite a few episodes is just how little a "deterrent" jail actually was.

In fact as they describe it it was quite the opposite. They grew up seeing people get out of prison. And those people coming out of prison had a kind of "respect" in the community. And kids look up to respect and power and influence. They want it too. So people like The Two Norries and many of their guests describe growing up actively looking forward to jail time and the Street Cred it would get them when they came back out. So rather than being a deterrent for many of their crimes - jail almost actively incentivized those crimes.

Kids who want respect and security and safety and cred and so forth will look around them to see how to get it and what roles they can emulate to get some. And if this is what they are seeing in their community then this is what they are going to emulate. The crass and relatively poor thought out distillation of this is when people write throw away lines like "Scum begets scum". A sentence that - while it displays ignorance and a lack of all nuance and just knee jerk reactions to admittedly scummy animalistic behavior - still contains at least some kernel of the truth within it.

But whatever the truth - and whatever the ultimate solution - the response some people have of "Automatic jail time that will deter them" does not appear to be the given they think it is.

bokale · 21-09-2022 8:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644678#Comment_119644678

I agree with you on is 'Less affluent areas will see (percentage wise) more criminality and anti social behavior.'

I believe that is the underlying issue here.

Not people, policing or the courts as people have suggested. As we have the same people, police and courts across the country.

It's not a coincidence all these joy riders are born in the same parts of the country.

Buachillsalach · 21-09-2022 8:28am

"Its a minority that's causing all this trouble but the ordinary decent people who just want to live in peace"

I get so tired of reading that line. I grew up in an area comparable to this, it's not the minority. Areas like this are fundamentally broken and garner a reputation from sustained inherent and rampant behavioural practices. (That's not for a second to say there are no decent hardworking people in those communities)

Kermit.de.frog · 21-09-2022 8:33am

The number of people on radio saying most of the people in a certain area of Dublin aren't scumbags "of course". Totally out of touch.

1 They don't know the area.

2 That mantra is not remotely true. Yes there is a cohort of nice people in the area that are terrified and need help. That is actually the minority.

The majority in the area we are talking about is mostly generational welfare dependent thugs dragging up the next generation.

They don't give a sh!t.

Why do some find this so hard time understand?

Jinglejangle69 · 21-09-2022 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643024#Comment_119643024

Years and years of rewarding dossers with free money and houses.

Telling they nothing is their fault and they are the victims.

I can’t see any saving this country now. It’s gone past the point.

spurious · 21-09-2022 8:46am

Crap parenting.

People who are not emotionally mature themselves having children.

Welfare system that incentivises having more children, regardless how existing ones are taken care of.

Men often absent.

Parents trying to be friends instead of parents.

Poor attendance at and early leaving of education.

Out of touch judges who fall for sob stories.

Greedy solicitors who should hang their heads in shame for some of the ludicrous 'excuses/defences' they put forward.

Same as it ever was.

Ham_Sandwich · 21-09-2022 8:47am

there does be loads of times where the kids arent even from the areas well but that doesnt stop the goody goodys calling the people who live there scum as if they were perfect all there lifes.

Ham_Sandwich · 21-09-2022 8:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644184#Comment_119644184

id never beleieve a word out of a gardas mout all yous do is hassle the kids and try to get everyone ratting on each other instead of doing youser jobs yourselfs

Northernlily · 21-09-2022 8:55am

Security Guard was as useless as a chocolate Teapot in that Spar Dame St situation.

There was a crazed lunatic in his shop slashing someone's face and he only intervened when the damage was done.

For **** sake, what's he afraid of? There are piles of chairs and other items in that spar (2 seperate seating areas) he could have picked up and womped her over the head with at a safe distance and got the bystanders to drop their phones and help detain the aggressor. That's what the situation needed, neutralizing the aggressor for the safety

Pack of soft fuckers. Half the problem with the rise in anti social behavior is how soft society has become.

starkid · 21-09-2022 8:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644731#Comment_119644731

i don't think many think jail is a deterrerent. take the recent murder of a child in Liverpool by a a gangster. why would anyone want to see the person who pulled the trigger jailed? quite simple, as punishment. sometimes, shock horror, jail is the only way to effectively punish somebody who has wronged the norms of society. if you don't want to execute the person who murdered a child ( i would have no qualms about it) then hard jail time is the only answer for this person. victims in such cases must always be placed first imo. as Norway has realised with a scumbag like Breivik who will never be released.

its clearly more complex with smaller crimes and in cases like the two norries. jailing thieves and petty criminals isn't going to work, however people always site Norway (hence i used it above) and such in these debates. people should look at how Norway uses tagging. How they use free legal aid and supervised parole. HOw they have no bail. and how their police carry weapons in their cars. We want it all here. No visible police, no weapons, no sentences, weak bail, endless free legal aid, no tagging, uninvasive cctv, no jail and on and on it goes. there comes a point where you have to put away the bleeding heart and call it. its clear where this will end up. Places like Cherry Orchard will mirror other places across the globe that become literal no go areas.

i live in the NIC and the places have changed so much. so much so, i'd imagine only one or two streets will fester a bit as life grows on without them. however places in Darndale, cherry orchard and other pockets across Ireland will become no go areas. And the only way to stop this right now (given we invest millions upon millions in these areas compared to other countries) is to go in hard now to at least break some of this apathy up. And by hard i mean why not talk about tagging, or end unlimited free legal aid etc. Personally i'd start with parental cautions for repeated under 18 offences the same way tusla gets involved for stuff. Obvs they'll send letters to middle class parents for missing school (as happened last year) i'd imagine its just nothing for these areas as whats the point. to use an an every day example of the kind of apathy and selective targeting, its like the scumbag who rorars his way off the luas cause he has no ticket yet the inspector turns to the law abiding person who forgot to tag and issues a fine. The same way the Gardai will go for easy collars and leave this other stuff be. personally im fed up of that kind of thing, and it will actually turn nasty once one party or politican realises its an easy vote winner.

basically nip it in the bud now, or i think we are fucked. and talking about the past is pointless. its 2022. this isn't 1980s Ireland, 1990s ireland it doesn;t matter about the animal gangs. Ireland is following the normal curve, and Irish exceptionalism won't get us out of this trend. We have fluked it so far. Absolutely fluked it. Also we had a major terrorist organisation doing alot of shady **** right up to the 90s basically keeping some **** in check.

Now in the last few years we've had a kid kill a woman in the CBD of Dublin and nobody batted an eyelid, a lidl destroyed and looted, kids stabbed to death all over the shop,riots, race police shootings, and numerous else. Irish exceptionalism is dead and gone, we're now a grown up western capitalist society who skipped a number of steps. imo we are fucked.

there was a woman doing a vodoo thing around the spire yesterday and it got a few good laughs on reddit. I live in the area and the things i see going on around Talbot st aren't that funny they remind of some of the mental health crisis' you would see in New York. I think its only a matter of time till we have a major incident and the lack of police presence will come home to roost.

TLDR - jail for petty crime obvs doesn't work. For serious crime or attack on police and other public workers its a punishment, plain and simple. If you choose to live outside society and give the fingers to the rest of us, suck it up, particularly as our Irish society tries its level best to be fair etc. obvs more could be done in that regard.

Buachillsalach · 21-09-2022 9:11am

"id never beleieve a word out of a gardas mout all yous do is hassle the kids and try to get everyone ratting on each other instead of doing youser jobs yourselfs"

Almost had a stroke trying to read that.

EOQRTL · 21-09-2022 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644879#Comment_119644879

Absolutely wet tissue that security guy and the men standing around.

StrawbsM · 21-09-2022 9:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644929#Comment_119644929

I think they’re upset because the media and Garda presence in the area all of yesterday spoiled their joyriding fun.

😂

walshb · 21-09-2022 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644860#Comment_119644860

Ah, your mask has slipped. This is nothing but an anti society two fingers to society post. And it’s attitudes like this that allow thugs and criminals to flourish.

hynesie08 · 21-09-2022 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644879#Comment_119644879

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644930#Comment_119644930

Enlighten us with the completely real stories of the times you disarmed someone holding a blade.

Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Comments

Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - Read OP