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Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

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    #602
    The_Wanderer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭The_Wanderer


    The July gallery has been updated with images of the Nenagh Branch relaying project. Train services have been suspended since the middle of May until the 31st July to allow the section between Cloughjordan and Roscrea to be fully relaid with CWR. Later in the year, between Monday 26th September to Sunday 20th November the last two sections of jointed track between Roscrea and Ballybrophy will be tackled. 

    Click https://bit.ly/3ylB4JA to view.

    Untitled Image


    Untitled Image




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    #603
    seekers
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭seekers


    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/track-renewal-works-on-ballybrophy-to-limerick-via



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    #604
    seekers
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭seekers


    the line is scheduled to close from the 26th September until 20th November to complete the relaying work. would it have been possible to keep some of it open as they said they are only relaying the Roscrea to Ballybrophy part.



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    #605
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513756#Comment_119513756

    Irish Rail's when asked this question by North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership was that for operational reasons they need to close the entire line. The rail trains turn in Nenagh and at stages during the closures they have to "park" trains at various spots along the line without any passing loops.

    Its frustrating but this is the last major closure and finally the CWR track upgrade will be completed, we are peomised this will deliver (modest) speed improvements once all the welding etc has been completed in Q1 2023. A new timetable in 2023 and hopefuly two new services being added to that timetable also in 2023.

    Unfortunately that last one is an NTA decision and they have not been very supportive so far.

    Things are looking up but still such a long way to go, need to secure those additional services. We need to automate the remaining manned level crossings. We need to start a project to reduce the numbers of accommodation crossings along the line.

    Apparently the passenger numbers have increased a lot in the last month or so which is great to see.



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    #606
    seekers
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭seekers


    This line is very very slow. Even with the relay that has been done it is still extremely slow



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    #607
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Well the track relay project has not been completed yet. And at the moment there are increased speed restrictions on the section between Cloughjordan and Ballybrophy.

    The line closes again September 26th to November 20th. Then after that closure the final welding will be completed on the newly laid track and it will be fully done at the start of 2023.

    New timetable due after that.

    It will still of course be too slow but it is ob the verge of being less slow



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    #608
    seekers
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭seekers


    Will the signalling be redone also as part of the relay? An interesting story about the staff having to be brought by road during the week but I don't now the full details



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    #609
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202050#Comment_119202050

    For the former to happen would require significant trackwork and signalling alterations at Ballybrophy on the mainline.

    For a train to enter the branch requires three reversals, and some of the moves are not signalled for use with passengers on board the trains.

    Regarding bus services, the bus service has contracted along the route since Bus Éireann cancelled their 12/X12 services. There is a 4:45 gap in service in the mornings from Dublin to N7 towns southwest of Portlaoise. There have been no indications that bus companies want to increase services.

    The railway, linked in with Local Link has to be the sensible way forward and to build the service up to 4 or 5 trains a day has to be the target.



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    #610
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The proposed new timetable has been published for consultation and sees services along the line accelerated by 15 minutes, but no additional services planned.

    Consultation is here:

    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/Proposed-timetable-changes-from-11th-December-2022

    Nenagh Line proposed timetable is here:

    https://www.irishrail.ie/Admin/IrishRail/media/Timetable-PDF-s/Timetable%20Consultation%202022/03-DubLimkNN_v2.pdf



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    #611
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634320#Comment_119634320

    No changes to the signalling are being made now.

    This is purely a track relay project.



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    #612
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,810 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636679#Comment_119636679

    17:10 out of Colbert is absolutely stupid. Completely destroys any hope of this being a commuter train.



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    #613
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636706#Comment_119636706

    As it connects into services to and from Dublin at Ballybrophy, it needs to operate at that time.

    You would need an additional train to run an hour later to Nenagh and back, but that will require additional funding from the NTA.

    As posted above by another poster, there’s going to have to be lobbying of the NTA to get additional services now.



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    #614
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636782#Comment_119636782

    Exactly that, the NTA seem to be highly resistant to any additional services on the line.

    North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership are campaigning to put pressure on the NTA to change their position and introduce a middle of the day service.

    Pretty disappointed with the proposed timetable. The 15 minute "time saving" doesn't really benefit passengers particularly Dublin bound in the morning. It leaves limerick later but departs Nenagh at the exact same time as it does now. Arrives in Dublin at the exact same time as now. Don't see how it's a benefit for potential passengers.

    The 17:10 departure from Limerick in the evening is an improvement on the current timetable.



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    #615
    Poxyshamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643851#Comment_119643851

    While the 17.10 is an improvement, it still doesn’t suit the bulk of workers who finish around 5.30/6pm



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    #616
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Its really tricky to suggest an exact time that the evening service should depart Colbert. And the fact it has to meet up with the Dublin bound train at Ballybrophy etc

    Bringing it after 17:00 was the first goal. 17:15 possibly wouldn't make it to Ballybrophy in time.

    Frustrating I know. At the end of the day the Colbert to Ballybrophy journey should be reduced to 90 minutes. As welcome as the recent investment has been, the farm crossings, the staffed crossings all need to be dealt with if the line is to be efficient user friendly public transport. I think there is a commitment to reduce the number of farm crossings by 50% by 2025.

    Automation of the staffed crossings would really help in terms of reduced running costs and the ability to run more services especially on Sundays and public holidays.



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    #617
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643997#Comment_119643997

    As I already posted, that train can’t go any later as it has tight connections at Ballybrophy to and from Dublin.

    What could happen is an additional service to Nenagh and back an hour later at 18:10. It would just about make it back to Birdhill before the other train is back at Roscrea.

    That needs NTA buy-in and funding, but politically given the significant money pumped into relaying the line, there needs to be some extra trains added to the service.



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    #618
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,810 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    As I was just saying in another thread Ireland needs to stop thinking about trains being city to city.

    That line needs a train leaving Limerick post work just as much as it needs one connecting to Dublin.

    Should be both not one or the other. It's at least worth a try if we are serious about sustainable transport.



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    #619
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    I know the signalling is complicated, but could the reverse of what happens in the morning not be done in the evening at Nenagh?

    A 17:10 and say 18:10 to Nenagh and then the two join up on the return back to Limerick? Calling on signalling is done all the time in Heuston.



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    #620
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647725#Comment_119647725

    People need to suggest it - that way the NTA will get the message!!



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    #621
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,810 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647869#Comment_119647869

    Sadly that's backwards.

    sustainable transport has been shown to be an "if you build it they will come" system



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    #622
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647881#Comment_119647881

    You are unfortunately dealing with politics here - it has taken a lot of political pressure to get the line relaid and now that needs to move on to getting additional services on the line. That is going to need pressure on the NTA, as Hugh Creegan (their deputy CEO) wasn't particularly bothered when asked recently, despite a lot of public money having been spent on the relay.

    All I am saying is put in a submission to the proposed timetable consultation and suggest an additional 18:10 departure, and a midday service.



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    #623
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    No more passenger trains will operate on the line from tonight until November 21st. This is the final major track renewal closure. Dont know how long after the 21st of November all the track welding will be complete but to my knowledge this will see the last sections of jointed track remaining on the network upgraded to continuous welded rail.

    A few years ago I thought this would never happen. So to me it is a positive moment to acknowledge how far the line has come in a few short years from where it was not so long ago.

    Still loads to do to get the line up to a proper standard but feels like a positive milestone for a the Nenagh line.



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    #624
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Hi all,

    If anyone here would like to make a submission to the timetable review this was my submission. I am not saying this submission is great or anything like it. Just what I personally think might help improve the timetable for passengers.

    So if you haven't and would like to a variation on something like this might be worth making the effort before Sundays deadline.

    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/proposed-timetable-changes-from-11th-december-2022


    Hi, could the morning trains departing Nenagh towards Dublin Heuston and Limerick Colbert depart earlier? Based on the proposed timetable the train will be sitting in Nenagh railway station for over 10 minutes. The trains departing Nenagh towards Limerick and Dublin Heuston should both be ready to depart at 07:40 even if this requires and earlier original departure from Limerick Colbert than 06:45. 

    The 15 minute time saving being delivered after the track renewal project is being eaten up on the morning service to Dublin by the train just idling in Nenagh Railway station. 

    I know this will require the train from Ballybrophy to Dublin arriving earlier also but the effort should be made to deliver this in the timetable.

    10 minutes could be the difference in passengers all along the line making it to work in Portlaoise before 09:00. 

    It is also vitally important that a Portlaoise stop is added to the evening service from Dublin Heuston to Limerick via Nenagh.

    This may require a slightly earlier departure from Dublin Heuston at 17:55 but it would be worth it to deliver a proper commuter service from passengers along the line that commute for work in Portlaoise. 

    The evening service must mirror the morning service. 

    There should be an effort made to have trains departing Limerick Colbert towards Ennis/Galway and Cork Kent stations soon after the morning Nenagh train arrives added to the new timetable. 

    And vice versa there should be an effort to have trains arriving into Limerick Colbert from Galway/Ennis and Cork Kent just prior to the evening train to Dublin Heuston via Nenagh departing.

    We need to build up the number of travel options that the line can connect in to.

    In an ideal world the last stop before and the first stop after Dublin Heuston would be a station that has connecting trains that have access to the Phoenix park line trains that travel to and from Grand Canal Dock railway station."

    Thanks



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    #625
    andrewfaulk
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    I would imagine the 10 minutes in Nenagh on the morning is to split the train



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    #626
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The proposed timetable changed and the morning service waits at Nenagh until 07:50 and takes full advantage of the 15 minute journey time improvement as a result of the speed limit increase. Anyone getting on at Nenagh will see their journey time improve by 15 minutes.

    The timings on the mainline aren't going to change for now, so, given the majority of people will be getting on at Nenagh and Roscrea it's better that they get the benefit of the speed increase.

    The train has to leave Limerick at 06:30 as the Limerick-Dublin service leaves at 06:40.



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    #627
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682180#Comment_119682180

    Yes I understand that but they are proposing to change the original departure time of the two (combined) trains from Limerick Colbert to Nenagh from 06:30 to 06:45. Why not leave that first train that would have very few passengers at 06:30 and split the train in Nenagh at the earlier time and have both trains depart Nenagh earlier.



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    #628
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682204#Comment_119682204

    I am not sure if that is correct. They are changing the morning departure from Limerick to 06:45 from 06:30?

    Disappointing that the times on the mainline are not going to change at the same time. It's really hard to make a reasonable submission that is realistic and will help people.

    I really hope they at least take on board the requirement for a stop in Portlaoise on the evening service down from Dublin. There are many people from Nenagh and Roscrea that work in Portlaoise. It could really help people to have a rail commuter option.

    Attached is the proposed timetable

    Screenshot_20220927-131720_Drive.jpg

    Edites my submission to the following

    "Could the morning trains departing Nenagh towards Dublin Heuston and Limerick Colbert depart earlier? Based on the proposed timetable the train will be sitting in Nenagh railway station for over 10 minutes. The trains departing Nenagh towards Limerick and Dublin Heuston should both be ready to depart at 07:40 even if this requires and earlier original departure from Limerick than 06:45. This train should stay at a 06:30 departure from Limerick and have the train ready to split in Nenagh earlier which would allow an earlier departure for passenger towards Limerick or Dublin Heuston.


    The 15 minute time saving being delivered after the track renewal project is being eaten up on the morning service to Dublin by the train just idling in Nenagh Railway station. 

    I know this will require the train from Ballybrophy to Dublin arriving earlier also but the effort should be made to deliver this in the timetable.

    10 minutes could be the difference in passengers all along the line making it to work in Portlaoise before 09:00. 

    It is also vitally important that a Portlaoise stop is added to the evening service from Dublin Heuston to Limerick via Nenagh. This may require a slightly earlier departure from Dublin Heuston at 17:55 but it would be worth it to deliver a proper commuter service from passengers along the line that commute for work in Portlaoise. 


    The evening service must mirror the morning service. 

    There should be an effort made to have trains departing Limerick Colbert towards Ennis/Galway and Cork Kent stations soon after the morning Nenagh train arrives added to the new timetable. 

    And vice versa there should be an effort to have trains arriving into Limerick Colbert from Galway/Ennis and Cork Kent just prior to the evening train to Dublin Heuston via Nenagh departing.

    We need to build up the number of travel options that the line can connect in to.

     In an ideal world the last stop before and the first stop after Dublin Heuston would be a station that has connecting trains that have access to the Phoenix park line trains that travel to and from Grand Canal Dock railway station."


    Thanks



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    #629
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,703 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Apologies you are correct about the later departure time from Limerick.

    It still needs the 10 minutes at Nenagh to effect the split.

    It will get to Nenagh at around 07:38 and leave at 07:50.

    There’s no point in going any earlier from Nenagh as people will be standing around at Ballybrophy waiting for the connection. They aren’t recasting the mainline timetable, only adding some extra services, so changing the times of the up Limerick-Dublin would have knock on implications.

    The train is leaving Nenagh 15 minutes later than before, so for the two busiest stations on the line this is an improvement.



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    #630
    seekers
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭seekers


    It is amazing how slow the train operates on this line. it is also interesting that a local link bus operates 15 minutes after the 10 30 train from Roscrea via Cloughjordan to Nenagh



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    #631
    Deedsie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682401#Comment_119682401

    Yes I can see what you mean. It is disappointing that the entire timetable is not up for review. Being realistic they are not going to change from the proposed timetable they have published. As you say no point waiting around at Ballybrophy. And 07:50 to Dublin is a more humane time than 07:35

    The Nenagh - Limerick morning train should be left at 07:45. I think people would rather arrive in Limerick 2 mins earlier than to depart Nenagh 2 mins later at 07:47.

    It is of course great to see any improvements for the line but this timetable is not going to do much to increase passenger numbers.


    Do you think there is any chance they will include a Portlaoise stop to evening service from Dublin Heuston to Limerick via Nenagh? Kinda mad it isn't already an option for people.



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