Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

ESB eCars

Options
1226227229231232313

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Only issue with that is that you only have 4 charging bays and 8 available charge points. You would need longer spaces to accommodate 8 cars and be able to maximise the use of every charge point



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Redundancy in the number of cables can be just as important to maximise the use of a charge point. Many modern charge points separate the charging equipment from the charge cable and control point. It doesn't cost much extra to have 2 cables connected instead of 1.

    Here we'd see the operator choose to deploy a CCS and a CHAdeMO connector to maximise the potential customers, as CHAdeMO goes out of style that same charger could be given two CCS connectors. In the event of a maintenance issue with the cable the charger is still operational.

    Electrify America always deploy the two cables per single space in the USA, they appear to value resiliency and redundancy over the minimal cost saving by supplying just one cable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    EA. Great example. In a site with 4 units, each unit has 2 connectors. So thats 8 plugs. Of those 8, 7 are CCS. We should follow their lead here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian



    Chademo cars make up about 30-40% of the fleet, probably more when importing second hand from the UK becomes viable again, why would they make up 1/8th of the connectors?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,072 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Do you have any stats to back up your 30-40% claim?



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    CHAdeMO cars including new and used imports into Ireland, not including any that may have been taken off the road, based on stats from beepbeep.ie, account for 21% of electric cars. I'm not sure why everyone who is pro CHAdeMO feels the need to overcook the numbers so much in support of their propriety connector.

    Here's a thread on it if you feel like discussing further https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058038671/chademo-v-ccs



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    No, because it's chunky japanese powered bunkum



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    No but a previous poster has suggested it's about a fifth, so using his figures back to my question, why would you have the number of connectors at 1/8th?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It was only the last month of 2020 that parity (1:1) was achieved between CHAdeMO and CCS. It's taken 20 months for us get to a 5:1 ratio. Infrastructure needs to be installed for next 5 years worth of cars not those that are on the road today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Second hand imports are likely to skew those figures though

    As previously stated the ratio is 4:1, not 5:1... SIMI reported 41,000 electric cars at the end of May and 8,000 in the first 5 months so that would suggest maybe 46,000 as of today considering 4 extra months of trading?

    As we know there's a target to get a million EVs on our roads in the next 8 years, assuming we get to 50k by the end of this year we then have to make 950,000 in that time or 118,750 EVs every year so the Japanese and English second-hand markets will be providing big sales numbers.

    You're fooling yourself if you think Chademo won't be big in the next 5 years



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ah yes. The japanese imports with wonky FM bands and displays that cant be 100% changed, and the UK imports with 23% VAT and possibly 10% customs duties. They will take the market by storm, better watch out for all the chademos!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The second-hand motor vehicle export refund scheme (mouthful, I know) coming on October 1st will nullify the 23% VAT here to just 3%. The issue of radio frequencies is in most japanese imports, if not all and doesn't bother most people

    But please, if you have a better way of getting 118,750 EVs on our roads every year then let me know



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    No, thats including used imports, you'll note that my statement said I was including used imports.

    I don't know where you think all these cars are going to come from, we can look at the numbers from just this year where 90% of new and used cars have CCS connectors.

    Perhaps you should start analysing the numbers instead of making up anecdotes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    Second hand imports from the UK will depend on the number in the market. In the UK, new EV sales are predominantly CCS. A check on sales figures for last year (2021) in the UK suggests that CCS outsold Chademo by a factor of at least 11:1 (For the top 10 EVs sold in the UK, there were about 80k CCS cars (could be a bit lower or higher, I don't know how many of the Zoes were AC only) and 7.5k Leafs).



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    With the yearly explosive growth in new cars, I'd be very surprised if 1 in 10 cars needed a CHAdeMO connector by the end of 2024.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    the Leaf seems to ship about 600-700 cars per year.

    The exponential growth in sales is all happening in CCS, and the Leaf continues at about 600-700 units per year.. so this year about ~12,000 CCS cars, 600-700 Leafs, next year 24,000CCS, and 600-700 Leafs, then by 2024 48,000 CCS cars and 600-700 Leafs...


    I'd say the number would be closer to 1 in 50 needing CHAdeMO by end of 2024, yet 3 months away from 2023 only 1 eCars multi unit site has more CCS than CHAdeMO plugs...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭wassie


    The second-hand motor vehicle export refund scheme (mouthful, I know) coming on October 1st will nullify the 23% VAT here to just 3%.

    It doesnt work like that - it is proposed that you can only claim back UK VAT on the the second-hand purchase price (pro-rata effectively). You pay 23% on Irish VAT on the original new purchase price.

    And there is no current start date - it is on hold as UK Govt intends to renegotiate the Northern Ireland Protocol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    UK similar to us will be dropping off leaf (and chademo as a whole) sales now that the ariya is starting to arrive. Expect loads of end of life deals on the leaf. If they are heavily discounted I may pick one up... that would never use the chademo plug anyway as a second car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian



    Now they are, yes, but 3 years ago they were just like us on parity, most UK imports are 3+ years old therefore 50% Chademo wouldn't be unrealistic

    Assuming we have 50k EVs by the end of this year and we add 24k next year, 48k in 2024 etc we would be at 3.072M new sales in 2030 and a total of 6.17M on our roads... That would be good going but completely unrealistic.

    A dealer in January told me the market for all new cars in Ireland regardless of fuel source is 100,000



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I wouldn't expect any end of life deals on the leaf as there are none to sell at the moment, like most cars



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Now they are, yes, but 3 years ago they were just like us on parity, most UK imports are 3+ years old therefore 50% Chademo wouldn't be unrealistic

    Once again, numbers are actually available so instead of anecdotes we can see actual numbers. As of 2021 we're already importing more used CCS vehicles than CHAdeMO ones, and that's with me excluding Zoe's and Model S/Xs




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Good man @liamog , getting rid of the chunky plug arguments and anecdotes with actual stats!

    To be honest I'm surprised to even see that many imports. After brexit the only path open was from NI. They don't really have that many to spare and the prices are higher than GB typically



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    Now they are, yes, but 3 years ago they were just like us on parity, most UK imports are 3+ years old therefore 50% Chademo wouldn't be unrealistic.

    Our imports from the UK have been primarily ones that the UK second hand market didn't want (diesels). UK imports of EVs is going to get lower, as they are more desirable there with rising fuel prices.

    I just checked autotrader to see what is available in the UK, and for 2019 cars there are almost 6 times as many CCS as Chademo cars. In total, there are less than 700 available.

    Also, in the UK in 2019, there were about 38500 new EVs sold. If you say that 10% of those get imported to Ireland, then that's 3850 imports, and if you say that 50% of those have Chademo connectors, then there's 1925 Chademo cars imported each year. 50% is above the rate of cars sold in the UK with Chademo, but Leafs are produced in the UK, so (I think) are covered by the EU/UK trade agreement and don't need to have import duties paid, just VAT. Add those to the cars sold new with Chademo and you still end up with less than 3000 Chademo cars out of the probably 25-30k EVs registered next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭wassie


    Some traction starting to happen in upgrading ecars units in NI with awarding of funding to ESB.

    A number of ESB e-charging points are located at council (former DfI) car parks along with a number sited at council-owned car parks across the city and district. They will now see the replacement of either Fast or Rapid chargers.

    These areas include: Templemore Leisure Centre, The Diamond, Car Park, Bishop Street and Carlisle Road in Derry with a number of other locations such as Riversdale Leisure Centre, Lisnafin Park Car Park and Albert Street Car Park in Strabane benefitting.

    Article also mentions that ESB ecars "will soon no longer be free to use".



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Carlisle Road was only replaced a year or so back.


    The one in the Diamond is in an area that has been changed to a pedestrian area so they'll have to move it.


    Ecars told me that the 50kW (which has been maxed to 25-30kW for years) will be replaced in October with a 100kW unit.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Doi need to break out my usage graphs again? Must work on putting those on the site actually.

    CCS usage is about double CHAdeMO



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    CHADEMO Is being squeezed daily. No new cars , other than the leaf have it. And that’s being dropped. Every day more and more CCS cars are sold. It may be 5:1 at the moment. But it’ll be 10::1 next year



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    So CCS usage is double but there are 4 times as many cars? Surely that suggests there is a viable profit from supplying the plugs

    I never said the Chademo cars would come from new sales, I specifically said it would come from second hand imports. Also it's 4:1 at the moment, or (4/5):(1/5)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Be interesting to see what the NI charges will be when they arrive, presume they'll start with fast chargrs and later introduce for the slow charges as they did here... The London ones are a bit pricey but they don't get public money over there to my knowledge



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    CCS cars have typically more range than the Leaf/CHAdeMO (very much so given the range on older leafs), so less public charging needed per car for CCS vs CHAdeMO.

    CHAdeMO draw less power than CCS (pretty much across the board), so 1 minute of CHAdeMO usage is less profitable than 1 minute of CCS usage.

    There's profit to be made from CHAdeMO support, but the graph doesn't lie... the profits have much greater potential if you install CCS (not taking into account the higher power consumption that CCS has).



Advertisement