Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

It's always been the case that when Leinster are at their most successful they have imported beasts in the BR: Elsom, Thorn, Hines and Fardy being the notables in the teams European successes. Leinster fans often claim Thorn played very few games, but he played the big ones and helped win them. 1 European cup isn't a great record for Lancaster given the resources at his disposal and it's a fact that they've come up short in the same department in the competition time and again. I pointed out early in the season last year that too many of the teams tries were coming from pick and gos from the 5 and that a more expansive attack would be necessary to succeed in Europe. At the time I didn't think it would cost them the league too but such is life. I hope Jenkins can deliver but overall it's a disappointment that they haven't recruited the kinds of players who feature in every European cup winning team. It's arguable that they failed to replace SOB too.

Much stronger side than I was expecting. Glad to see Frawley getting a start over Ross Byrne as well.

15. Jimmy O’Brien (53)

14. Jordan Larmour (74)

13. Garry Ringrose (102) CAPTAIN

12. Robbie Henshaw (68)

11. Dave Kearney (174)

10. Ciarán Frawley (57)

9. Luke McGrath (176)

1. Andrew Porter (91)

2. Dan Sheehan (29)

3. Michael Ala’alatoa (26)

4. Jason Jenkins (1)

5. James Ryan (58)

6. Ryan Baird (38)

7. Josh van der Flier (114)

8. Caelan Doris (55)

16. Rónan Kelleher (37)

17. Ed Byrne (86)

18. Cian Healy (249)

19. Ross Molony (140)

20. Will Connors (26)

21. Cormac Foley (5)

22. Ross Byrne (129)

23. Charlie Ngatai (1)

I guess we're seeing Baird moving from lock to backrow. Leinster have been selecting him more often than not and Farrell seems to see that as his position in green too.

Didn't even register that Healy is back at sub tighthead.

I thought the experiment went reasonably well last season before it was scrapped.

I'd love to see him as a viable option at TH

Great to see Frawley get a go at 10. He hasn't played there much in the last 2 years, so we shouldn't expect perfection. But I think he'll go well. The fact that Ross was fit and available makes in even more intersting. Hopefully he gets a dry evening behind a pack on the front foot so he can really show what he can do.

It's a very strong selection though. I love the makeup of the back 5 of the pack. Great balance of power and mobility.

Not sure how I feel about Healy covering TH though. Doesn't reflect well on Clarkson or Abdaladze if Healy is being picked out of position ahead of them.

The talk of only one Champions Cup under Leo and Lancaster is very odd. It smacks of some misguided sense of privilege.

Since they have been in charge. We have won it once, been beaten finalists twice, beaten semi finalists twice and only failed to qualify for the semis once. That is an amazing level of consistency. That teams with much bigger budgets and resources would envy.

You would think we had some sort of god given right to win it.

Lancaster leaving ! Not unexpected! If he does, best of luck to him. He did well for Leinster.

Nobody is saying we should win it every year. And of course we don't have a god given right to win it. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

But two things can be true at once. And 1 H Cup in 6 years is fairly underwhelming no matter how you spin it. Particularly when you consider Leinster have had the bulk of the Ireland team for all of that time.

That record, along with 0 Championships in 4 years with England, as well as failing to get out of the group at RWC 2015, points to Lancaster being a slightly overrated coach IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a loss. But provided we get the replacement right, I don't think he'll be as big a loss as everyone thinks.

The actual answer is it's exceptionally difficult to win a European Cup. If you look at the teams that have sustained success, even over a short period of time, they have been teams comprising many of the best players to ever play the game, assembled at exorbitant costs that in some cases (i.e. Saracens), were way beyond what they were even allowed to spend (and let's be honest, probably Toulon almost certainly cooked the books too, they just got away with it). Once the money dried up, so did their success.

Our return of three finals over the past five seasons is exceptional. Only seven teams have managed that many final appearances in the 27 year history of the competition. Granted, we should have won in Marseille, it was entirely our own mistakes that undid us there, but a coach can only do so much. If a player makes a bad decision in the moment and it costs you the game, well, you can't control that from the stands.

And that's without mentioning our unprecedented success at a domestic level — four in a row. Nobody else has managed two in a row. It's a level of consistency that has been unheard of to this point. And the depth that has been built. Famously when the South African teams joined the league and were asked about the best teams, the answer was, "The best team is Leinster, the second best team is Leinster A".

Lancaster has had a hand in re-imagining Leinster at almost every level, helping to build a province that has never seen so much success in such a short space of time. 7 major finals in 5 seasons, winning 5 of them. Don't buy into the sad and bitter narrative that our literally unprecedented levels of success can somehow be branded as an underachievement.

His best chance in the international squad for the World Cup is as a selected 5.5 imo.

Cover lock and 6.

I think people's perceptions of Lancaster might be being coloured by how dominant they usually look an the regular season. Don't get me wrong; that's good and all, but at the end of the day you have to win the title.

He's done great work developing a large squad of capable players. You don't want to take that for granted.

I suppose how well his successor does will be useful extra information in assessing his tenure.

No, you don't have to win the title to do an excellent job. Only one team can win a title. Does that mean every other team didn't do their best or didn't get the best they can reasonably expect from their team?

I can't stand this English football attitude that you either win the tournament or it was a complete failure.

Leinster has been a massive success for over a decade. They did it without breaking the bank and without being a flash in the pan. Their plan is sustainable and they're developing new players at a fantastic rate. That is success.

I'm not sure if there will be a 5.5. There could be and the flexibility might swing an otherwise tight selection decision.

I see a 33 man squad as

9 front row

4 locks (one of which can cover backrow)

5 backrow

3 sh

3 oh (One of which can cover somewhere else)

4 centres

5 back 3

I could certainly see an argument for one less outside back and an extra back row though. Especially if the 3rd OH is decent cover at wherever he is covering or a wing can cover centre or something.

Fancy naming the best imports without mentioning the best of them all Nasewa !!!