First Communion preparation to be moved out of classrooms.

Are you living in 1992? We're much more into three figures these days, possibly four.

€50 per relative? They'd have to prise it from my cold, dead hands. €20 or €30 max is plenty.

Because none of them give a shıt about the religious aspect. 🤣

Can't be pawned for enough to buy a PS5 would be my guess.

Getting rid of this waste of time in schools is grand. Need much more like it, anything to weaken the grip on society in Ireland of the criminal enterprise known as the RCC.

The types who insist on imposing their deluded "devotion" upon everyone else, because if everyone else is taking part then they never have to question the complete brainlessness of what they're doing.

The original claim was that taking time out of school is damaging, which is a waffly claim imo. Primary school isn't that rigorous. Has every generation of people til now had a sub-par education because they didn't devote more time to studying in sixth class?

Don't see what Islam has to do with it. I'm not a Muslim and my children don't go to an Islamic faith school. Religion is a spontaneous human norm, I think it is atheism which is warping but not getting into a 100-page back and forth with you here.

Well duh. I tried to get you to imagine what it would be like to walk in another person's shoes, and you failed spectacularly to do so.

The sheer arrogance of the religious types never ceases to amaze. Maybe if you lived in a majority Muslim country you'd learn a little humility.

Has every child in Ireland suffered an education less than optimal because of forced religion? Yes, absolutely, and the same goes for Irish.

Atheist declares every child in Ireland has suffered a less than optimal education because of forced religion, decries any adults who doesn’t share his opinions as arrogant religious types who can’t put themselves in other people’s shoes… namely, his.

You make a convincing case HD 😁

The initiative isn’t to remove religious education from religious ethos schools; it’s to allow parents who want to prepare children for the sacraments to do so in accordance with their faith. Benefits parents, benefits children, benefits religious ethos schools, benefits the Church.

It’s a win-win all round really, and still nobody is being forced into anything - the Family is still the primary educator of children, the schools still exist to provide religious education to parents who want that form of education for their children, and the children gain a much greater understanding of the sacraments as opposed to the traditional way religion is taught as learning by rote in Irish schools, as though they are preparing the children for exams. Same goes for Irish, and how other languages are taught in Irish schools.

It feels forced, because all the joy is sucked out of learning, when it’s not much more than learning by rote with no real understanding of the material. That doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be taught though, it does mean that there’s an issue with the way in which it is taught.

Clearly there’s something of a chasm in society between the theory and the practice, but an anti-theist putting that down to religion? Seems a bit fcuking obvious really 😂

I think communion and confirmation should be kept just with less of the money aspect.

I don't see why we should get rid of all our traditions. This is just a day out really.

I don't see any harm here whatsoever.

Based on the fact that the whole reason why this pilot program is being run, is because the Bishops are aware that nominal Catholics expect Catholic schools to do all the preparation for the sacraments, which is kinda the point of this thread.

Your opinion that most people pick their school based on proximity, is based upon what evidence exactly? Because while it’s true that most schools in closest proximity are Catholic schools, people aren’t necessarily inclined to enrol their children in the nearest one. It’s why there’s been the whole furore this week over school public transport, apart from the fact that the primary means of transport for children to school is by car, according to CSO figures. It should be obvious to even the most casual observer that not all Catholic schools are equal.

There is also evidence that when the DSP announced in 2013 that the exceptional needs payment would not be made available for religious ceremonies, the point was made that the payment was necessary for thousands of families who faced a lot of pressure to give their children a special day when they’re already watching every penny -

Leah Speight, of Single Parents Acting for Rights of Our Kids, said families already reeling from cuts in child benefits and other payments would be hit hardest.

"I'm not religious myself but many families are and they face a lot of pressure to give their children a special day when they're already watching every penny, it's not about going overboard and being outrageous," she added.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-families-hit-as-first-communion-grant-axed-29188705.html

The argument that parents should be able to ‘brainwash’ their children in the ways of the Catholic Church in their own time outside of education, ignores the reality that Catholic parents are expected to do that anyway! Catholic schools were established to support and supplement that education - the Family being recognised in Irish law as the primary and natural institution for the education of children, ie - parents have both a right, and a responsibility, to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, physical and social education of their children -

The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.

Article 42 - https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#article42

Your opinion that people have the wrong take on the issue being discussed in this thread, appears to be based upon nothing more than your own opinion that religion is a hobby, and should be treated as the extracurricular activity it is, when it’s precisely for this reason that the Bishops introduced a pilot program they were floating about since 2011, in order to address the issue of the Catholic education being undermined by people who are nominally Catholic who’s only interest appears to be in giving their children a special day, with the school doing all the preparation for the religious element -

In January 2011 a National Directory for Catechesis in Ireland (Share the Good News) was launched by the Irish Episcopal Conference. This details a ten-year plan for catechesis across the life cycle from childhood through adolescence to later adulthood. At its heart is a strong commitment to adult religious education. With regard to schools the Directory acknowledges the impact of a changing culture on children and adolescents. It calls for a religious education based on a partnership of home, school and parish. There is an ongoing debate in the Irish Church about the relationship between these three realities. It is generally accepted that Catholic primary schools do a really good job in religious education, not least with regard to preparation for the sacraments. However, difficulties arise because of the lack of any faith context in some homes. Thus the best efforts of school and parish can be undermined.

There is the further problem in some large urban areas that the link between school and parish is weakened by mobility as many pupils attend schools in parishes other than their own. All of this has led to an understandable divergence of opinion on the best way forward. Many believe that this is a time to strengthen the links between parish and school so that this nexus sustains Christian faith in a secular world. Others believe that the parish should now take on many of the responsibilities currently discharged by Catholic schools, not least with regard to the sacrament of confirmation. It is generally agreed that a religious education which ignored the sacramental life of the Church would not be Catholic in any meaningful sense of the term. Given these various views it would be helpful if a group of parishes or a diocese were to undertake a pilot programme over several years to experiment with a more parish-based religious education. In particular, this might focus on the sacrament of confirmation. In the meantime other parishes and dioceses would continue to strengthen the element of parish support for school-based religious education. Were such a pilot programme to be completed there would then be a lot of evidence to inform everyone’s judgment on the best way forward.

https://www.catholicbishops.ie/2011/04/06/6-april-2011-catholic-schools-republic-ireland/

It’s why the pilot scheme is being introduced, to increase engagement with the Church, not to discourage it or see that religion is relegated to the perception that it is nothing more than a hobby. In doing so, it’s encouraging greater participation from parents in the communication and practice of their faith to their children, to strengthen links between parish schools and the parish faith community -

In a pastoral letter published in August entitled “Putting out into deep waters”, Bishop Fintan Gavin said: "The link between our parish schools and our parish faith community is weaker than in the past”.

“While it is wonderful to see large numbers coming forward for first communion and confirmation, it is disheartening that so few actually participate in the local faith community – even the day after such important events where priests, teachers and parishes have invested so much energy.” 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40963394.html

In that context, it’s your own hot take, is misguided.

What a load of waffle.

People put their kids predominately into the closest school to their home, religion is not the factor that decides for most its connivence. What evidence do i have other than witnessing it 5 days out of 7??????

School transport has nothing to do with it, kids have to get to school somehow and how they get to school doesn't matter in this regard. Sure in my area some kids dont go to the local school because they head up the road to a Protestant school or an educate together school but its no more than 10% of the kids, its one bus load of kids when the local school have 650 kids.

The catholic religion in this country is shrinking faster than an ice cube in a sauna and for a lot of people they are somewhere between indifference and happiness with regards that.

The departure of religion teaching (which in itself is discriminatory) from the classroom will be welcomed by many, and those who wish to raise their children in whatever particular religion they choose can do so on their own time.

Pretending this change is at the behest of the church itself is spectacular in its stupidity. Times they are changing and not a moment to soon.

Wow.