Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

A-Train · 23-09-2022 9:17pm

Some greats changes in the RDS tonight for a greater fan experience. Then they remove the row letters on each seating row in the Grandstand and the madness was epic 😂

Leinster were good aswell.

randomname2005 · 23-09-2022 9:22pm

Another bonus point win, all good point building from the start of the season. Every point counts come end of season

Exclamation Marc · 23-09-2022 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657043#Comment_119657043

Would you believe.... A scarf. 😂

And a luggage tag and passport holder.

New Leinster Fanzone is brilliant. Great to see them enhance the match day experience with such a great area that's going to be there going forward.

New walkout music is utter trash, especially compared to Enter Sandman.

Trojan · 23-09-2022 10:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119656980#Comment_119656980

It's Cave. He's less cynical than Ferriss, IMO a better pundit.

Dave_The_Sheep · 23-09-2022 11:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657540#Comment_119657540

Not even a particularly nice scarf. Oh well. I suppose I didn't really expect much.

AbusesToilets · 24-09-2022 12:29am

Has impressed with Henshaws kicking, he weighted them really nicely I thought.

TRC10 · 24-09-2022 4:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651219#Comment_119651219

Let's not rewrite history. For the last 5 years, up until the SA teams joining, we've been highly critical of the lack of quality in the league. And rightly so, because it wasn't there. What genuinely top class teams did we have as competition from 2018-2021? There was nobody on the level of LAR, Exeter, Racing, Saracens or Toulouse challenging us. There were the 2 Italian teams and the two Scottish teams who never go anywhere in Europe, the Kings and the Cheetahs, Connacht, and the Welsh regions who don't even want to be there and we know are crap (bar the Scarlets for 2 seasons before falling away massively). Ulster and Munster were our sternest competition, but they don't posses anywhere near as strong a squad as we do and haven't seriously challenged in Europe for over a decade each. We can't on one hand, complain about the poor standard of the URC/Pro12/Pro14, and then on the other hand, wax lyrical about Leinster (who's squad is by far the best) dominating that same tournament. You can't have it both ways. And as soon as genuine competition came in the form of the South Africans, we failed to win the league.

Leinster's success has, and always will be measured by performance in European competition. And despite having the bulk of the starting XV of one the the top international sides in the world, we've only managed 1 in 6 years. Each time, falling short in a very similar manner with the same recurring problems. If people are happy with that than fine. But I personally see it as underperformance given our resources. I'm not saying Lancaster is a poor coach. Far from it. He's clearly a very good coach. But like it or not, falling short when it matters most is a recurring theme over his coaching career. That's just a fact. He's been here for 6 years and I think the time is right for a reset. Just one guy's opinion.

Itxa · 24-09-2022 9:26am

Lancaster is one of the best coaches in the world. It’s no coincidence he took us from failing to qualify for knock outs in Europe to contenders in just a season. All this talk of him coming up short is rubbish. I think we’ll see just how good he is with Racing. I predict a Top 14 or European Cup within three years for them.

aloooof · 24-09-2022 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658256#Comment_119658256

There was nobody on the level of LAR, Exeter, Racing, Saracens or Toulouse challenging us.

Of the teams you mentioned, only Saracens have won more European Cups than Leinster during Lancaster's period. Here's the breakdown of exit stage for those teams.

if Leinster are underperforming then so are everyone else. There's been 5 different winners in the last 5 years; it's an indication of how difficult a competition it is to win.

We can't on one hand, complain about the poor standard of the URC/Pro12/Pro14, and then on the other hand, wax lyrical about Leinster (who's squad is by far the best) dominating that same tournament. You can't have it both ways

Leinster have played in a comparatively poorer league, but equally they've won it comparatively more frequently. Or, to put it another way, you can't have it both ways either.

And fwiw, Munster have beaten each of Toulouse, Racing and Exeter in that period as well. And Ulster have beaten Toulouse, Racing, Exeter and La Rochelle.

stephen_n · 24-09-2022 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658569#Comment_119658569

Don’t be countering his constant moaning by using facts. That’s not fair.

Clegg · 24-09-2022 11:09am

Jenkins has played well this season. He's a massive man and does very well in the tight exchanges in both attack and defence. But I didn't realise that he also has decent handling ability. Over both matches he has made some nice offloads and linking passes to keep our attack flowing.

I've also been impressed by his ability to pop up on the shoulder of a carrier to receive an offload. Did it last night and in the game against Zebre. Shows he has a good understanding of where the attack will be.

Clegg · 24-09-2022 11:46am

Also, I appreciate that it'll take longer for Ngatai to adapt to Leinsters backline attack. It's understandable that he doesn't look fully in sync with his teammates yet. But in the meantime he's at least showing how committed he is when it comes to the physical side of the game. He pulverised a Benneton player at the ruck with a monster clear out.

24-09-2022 1:29pm

Does the fan zone have screens and a bar? Could be handy when there's other games after. The pubs can sometimes be a bit manic.

Dubinusa · 24-09-2022 2:29pm

There's no dominant team in Europe atm. Looking at the top 14, it's apparent There's no dominant side either. The premiership has usually 4 good sides and the remainder are bottom tier sides. The URC, is probably a better league than the premiership right now.

Itxa · 24-09-2022 5:29pm

I was just thinking about the game on Friday and while it was an efficient demolition of lesser opposition I was left with a feeling of impending doom about what’s ahead for Leinster. Nearly all the tries were from lineout mauls and the two that weren’t were scrambles off lineouts.

It was a disappointment to see Doris go off because it was impossible to judge how the back row went. I thought Frawley played well in his time on the pitch and offered enough to say there is potential there of him stepping into Sextons shoes when he goes. He seems to have recurring shoulder problems and speaking from experience it is better if he gets them done surgically and the sooner the better.

I said it before and I think I will be right, Jenkins will be starting in Europe this season. He offers so much of what we have been missing, physically imposing size and ballast at ruck and maul time. Clegg is right he also offers more around the park and inevitably draws more than one defender which opens space if he can get the ball away in the tackle.

I’d be concerned about our diversity of play. Being very good at one style, namely forwards oriented dominating play will spell problems when we inevitably meet our physical match later in the season. I’d like to see us trying to spin it wide more and stringing multiple phases together until gaps appear. If we rely on this, our stamina to outrun and open up teams, it will add another string to our bow.

stephen_n · 24-09-2022 5:39pm

It’s funny that the only try we scored out wide. Was finished by VDF. Though what’s far more interesting was the architect of the try. We got multiple phases going and brought them from one side of the pitch to the other. With RB pulling the strings and getting on the ball 4-5 times in the build up. Frawley was ok last night, didn’t do much wrong, didn’t really light it up either. We definitely got more width and got to the outside more with RB playing though.

AdamD · 24-09-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658728#Comment_119658728

I was impressed with his engine. He took a pass late on after a line break and led the kick chase a couple of times, impressive for a lock.

Clegg · 24-09-2022 5:50pm

I think it's very premature to feel any sort of unease or expectation for the season ahead. We've played just two matches and are off the back of a truncated pre-season.

I'm guessing that after our defeats to La Rochelle and the Bulls; the coaches have identified the tight collisions as an area that needs improvement. So we've been focussing on that especially in these opening games. We've looked quite impressive in the set piece if must be said.

It also cannot be discounted that we have two new senior coaches and it will take time for their plans and training methodology to transfer over to the players.

I disagree that we aren't showing diversity in attack. I think we're already seeing some of what Goodman wants from his backline. Last night we saw JOB, Henshaw and Ringrose kick multiple times each. They were all varied types of kicks too. Crossfields, grubbers and dinks over the rush defence. It's clear that we want to vary our attacking game and by having multiple kickers it keeps the defence guessing.

A lot of those kicks were blocked or not executed well enough. But the ambition to play differently is there. Our ball handling was poorish last night. But for the moment that can be attributed to early season rustiness.

ersatz · 24-09-2022 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658569#Comment_119658569

Ah, you could go around in circles trying to compare the relative fortunes of the top few teams in each league. There's the old chestnut that Leinster's dominance (until last season) in the URC combined with their relative squad strength meant they could keep a lot of powder dry for Europe that French and English teams couldn't. Maybe that gave them an advantage or maybe it didn't, but it definitely distinguishes their approach from the other top teams in the comp. But one thing is sure, for the last few seasons Leinster's squad has had 80% of one of the worlds top test teams, I'm not sure you can say that about any other European club.

Lancaster's legacy (which may include another HC) will likely be more about the state of the team, its culture, mindset, ambition and production line, than an inventory of silverware. He'll leave Leinster primed for success and he's also made Leo look like a genius.

aloooof · 24-09-2022 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660147#Comment_119660147

There's the old chestnut that Leinster's dominance (until last season) in the URC combined with their relative squad strength meant they could keep a lot of powder dry for Europe that French and English teams couldn't.

The flip side is that, when they didn't win, you could argue they weren't battle hardened and were caught cold. It works both ways.

But the long and short of it is 5 different teams have won it in the last 5 years. That's evidence enough it's incredibly difficult to win.

for the last few seasons Leinster's squad has had 80% of one of the worlds top test teams, I'm not sure you can say that about any other European club.

You can't say it about any other European club for a single Test team. But it's not like the other clubs mentioned weren't loaded with Internationals either. For example, Sarcens had more players (15) at RWC 2019 than Leinster (14). Toulouse and Racing had 10 each. And that's from a league with an awful lot more depth.

Itxa · 24-09-2022 7:56pm

A note of thanks to the players who did a lot of unseen work. I thought Molony and Baird looked quiet but they had the most tackles for Leinster Molony with 13 and Baird with 10. There wasn’t a huge amount to do defensively but it’s good to have players who can do the graft when needed.

ersatz · 24-09-2022 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660296#Comment_119660296

You're making the same point I made on whether Leinster are better our worse off for having a big squad, you can argue both ways.

But on the internationals thing, very different proposition having the bones of a test team and having players from lots of different test teams. As a coach do you want lots of the best players who train together ALL the time or some of the time, the answer is self evident.

aloooof · 24-09-2022 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660456#Comment_119660456

Rather, you mean:

As a coach do you want lots of the best players who train together ALL the time or some a large majority of the time.

And different coaches between international and club level may want very different things so it's not clear how beneficial it is.

And there's also the argument that Leinster have suffered from not having many voices from different rugby cultures, which other clubs benefit more from. That too can be argued both ways.

ersatz · 24-09-2022 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660535#Comment_119660535

No idea why your'e making these arguments. It's not a large majority of the time, it's all the time. Henshaw, Ringrose, Sexton, JGP, VDF, Furlong, etc etc etc, train together EVERY TIME THEY TRAIN, because it's either with Ireland or Leinster. That is just not the case with Saffers playing in England or Ozzies playing in France. Nick Skelton (or whoever) trains with the rest of the Australian pack a couple of months a year, so while he's gone there's no crossover to the club practice, Tadgh Furlong trains with the majority of the Irish pack all season long. Sexton trains with the same guys inside and outside him every time he trains, etc. It appears to be a significant difference.

aloooof · 24-09-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660583#Comment_119660583

We’re talking about Leinster and club level here; not international level.

The Leinster front row training together all the time.

The Toulouse front row train together a large majority of the time. Not just some of the time.

I think you’ve misread my post, as I’m not making the arguments you say I’m making.

Dave_The_Sheep · 24-09-2022 8:59pm

Leinster players are a large part of the Irish national setup because they're doing well at Leinster, they're not Irish national players because they're from Leinster and they're not at Leinster because they're Irish national players.

aloooof · 24-09-2022 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660701#Comment_119660701

I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise, to be fair.

Dave_The_Sheep · 24-09-2022 9:57pm

Ah I know, not directly anyway. It always seems to be lurking there under the surface when people talk about Leinster's success though. Maybe I'm just sensitive to the idea as I hear it a lot from foreign fans in other discussion fora/discords (not as much here obviously).

Itxa · 24-09-2022 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661105#Comment_119661105

Population advantage breeds success. More gate receipts and larger playing population gives us more money and more players to choose from. In simple statistical terms there is a greater probability of unearthing better players with a larger sample size.

Yes there is the professionalism and higher standards maintained at younger levels but that is not the whole story. People involved and associated with Leinster like to blow their own trumpets but we have a big advantage being in the biggest population centre.

There is unfairness in some respects but it can’t simply be Leinster are Ireland and Ireland are Leinster. There’s an anti-trust question also with the provinces being overseen by the IRFU. If there is any unfair advantage giving a dominant position to an undertaking in any industry, it could be seen as a breach of EU competition rules. Are Leinster given that unfair advantage financially by the IRFU? We have bigger squad than other provinces. Is it because we reside in Dublin or otherwise? That’s up to the other market participants to challenge. There’s no doubt though we have a dominant position in the market.

ersatz · 25-09-2022 3:01am

@aloooof

Ah listen, you were making the point earlier that ‘sure, it’s the same in France and saracens, they’re all internationals’. I’d argue it’s not the same when these guys play together all the time at club and international level. It’s one thing to have a couple of guys coming back from winning the six nations or the championship and ten or 12 lads who just won a series in nz. I don’t believe there’s a comparison in top flight world rugby other than the Argentinian team, and even there lots of their players play club in Europe.

Different ideas from different international set ups coming back into clubs may well be an advantage, but I'd say it's less of that and more about the influence guys coming from successful test teams have on the dressing room. That's certainly been the experience in Munster and Leinster over the years with the likes of Howlett and Thorn having a big influence on culture and expectations.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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