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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,933 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Nobody outside of Russia takes those sham referendums seriously, and I would say Putin privately acknowledges what they're really about as well. Putin would be as well to hold referendums among all Russian diaspora in the former Warsaw Pact territories and falsify the results, if necessary, to say that all this land is rightfully Russia and the rest of the world has one week to recognise that or it will be considered that Russia is occupied by a hostile foreign force and appropriate response will be meted out. The way he's going, it wouldn't come entirely as a surprise if he did do something like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    There was also no vast echo chamber of discord with easily-manipulated emotions that bad actors could instantly tap into.

    Trump could not have become US president in those days...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    That the Red Cross do marvelous work is well understood ( recent prisoner exchanges, Amnesties', safe passages etc ) but to expect them to cover all the bases in a situation like Ukraine is expecting a bit much. Especially when dealing with Putin, who does not have a humanitarian thought in his mind, let alone a humanitarian bone in his body. No, there are limits to what they can do, but within these limits, they are doing fantastic work in Ukraine ( and elsewhere in the world too at the present time, same as in the past )



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not well up on Russian politics, but didn't Gary Kasparov have brief attempt, how suitable all round would he be as a candidate?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,933 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's really down to the Russian people what kind of leader would emerge if Putin were to be ousted, but the last few hundred years doesn't fill me with any real hope they're interested in someone open and egalitarian. I've seen the argument made that you can't really run Russia as a western styled democracy, given the diversity of peoples in it, with conflicting cultures and regional interests.

    Personally, I don't care how Russia runs itself so long as they keep their cráp within their own borders. If Russia truly looks up to China, they would do well to take the example of how China has emerged as a world power - not by threatening the countries around them (not until recently, anyway), but by becoming an industrial powerhouse.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Reading back on my post, I probably wasn't clear enough. That Indeed was the point of the post!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Nope, not at all. But you should be aware that if you attack me in my home with a 10lb sledge hammer, that I also have a sledge hammer, and it's figuratively speaking a 20lb sledge hammer, and I will use it if I have to. Now what do you want to do? Go on...make your mind up. But don't say afterwards that you were not warned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,104 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That might have been a part of reason why US felt obliged, but for Ukraine they could have just cited the Budapest agreement if they wanted a context to act.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Tibet, India, the Uighurs, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc might take issue with the 'not threatening the countries around them' piece! China has become very bellicose in the last couple of decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    Gary Kasparov is not a good politician, he is too opinionated, and has almost no influence with the Russian mafia elite.

    Generally, a dictator is replaced by someone from his inner circle. Usually then there is period of turmoil while the power is redistributed. Examples: Franco's Spain after 1975, the USSR after Stalin. The successor should be a compromise candidate, acceptable to the current elites. The current PM of Russia Mishustin is a suitable candidate -- he does not seem to have any strong opinions and he is not affiliated with the FSB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The message needs to be loud, clear and unambiguous. Mr Putin, you were the one who introduced the possible use of nuclear weapons, and that was at the very beginning of the war, so be advised the subject is open for discussion on all sides, including ( and especially) the ramifications / response to a first strike. Ball is in your court Mr. Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Kuwait has never been in NATO.

    "Worth noting: The U.S. also has troops stationed in 10 non-NATO countries for peacekeeping and other cooperation missions.

    • They include Kosovo (800), Cyprus (100) and the potential future NATO members of Sweden (10) and Finland (5)."

    So, I don't agree with you and it was always a possibility. Did you know the US has been trainng and exercising with Ukrainian pilots for years? Nothing would have been simpler than for the US to put troops in Ukraine for 'friendly joint exercise' it's happened many times previosly.

    US Marines withdrew tanks and weapons from storage caves in secret locations in Norway and brought them to southern Finland last month. Once there, they fired tank guns and other weaponry alongside the Finnish army as part of an annual training exercise called Arrow 18.

    The drills took place from May 7 to May 18 and involved around 150 armoured vehicles and 300 other military vehicles. Only 30 marines took part, but they were joined by thousands of personnel from Finland and Norway.

    https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/15579-us-marines-move-tanks-from-secret-caves-in-norway-to-finland.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,933 ✭✭✭✭briany


    China has argued that Tibet, the Uyghurs, Hong Kong and Taiwan are internal matters, and China are never going to realistically do anything on India beyond border skirmishes, given they both possess nukes. I know the Taiwan thing is highly contentious - most other countries don't recognise the claim - but China has not yet acted on their threats, despite their posturing.

    However, the point was that China did not become a power through threats against other countries, even if it hasn't been without sin in that regard. It became a power through putting its head down and transforming its economy into a powerful machine and becoming sort of indispensable to the West, given how much of what we use is now made there. If Russia wants to occupy the place on the world stage it thinks it does, that's the kind of thing it should do, rather than this militaristic nonsense. It's a dead end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,570 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Although unlikely, I think it would be best if Russia disintegrated, depriving the indifferent Muscovites of their source of wealth from the east. There would be the safeguarding of the nukes question. But leaving them in place in the various republics can't work out any worse than what happened the last time when they were repatriated to Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭weisses




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Might be busy calling for thread locks and fake news in other threads🤣🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And rightly so!!! It's the ambiguity which is causing the problems. Crystal clear, black and white no nonsense statements are what's needed. Putin and his advisors need to be left in no doubt whatsoever what happens if they launch a nuclear / biological weapons strike.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I still think it would have been incredibly risky to put US troops into Ukraine (as opposed to actual NATO member states) and I don't recall seeing any US or international commentators suggesting it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    totally agree, they are dooming themselves to being a larger version of North Korea, if they are not already there



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I would say the madman in question is likely to be Putin or one of his ex-KGB entourage. The apartment bombings in Moscow, theater hostage taking and Beslan school massacre were all most likely false flag operations by the KGB/FSB. This is almost certainly the same.

    Look how evil people who oppose mobilisation are - you don't want to be on their side, do you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭rogber


    Yes that's awful, no matter where it happens. There are plenty of idiots on this thread who think the only good Russian is a dead Russian, but whoever's behind this no kids deserve to experience that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    What will be instructive to see is just who and even if, what other independent states recognise the status of these 'referendums'.

    There'll be a great degree of wariness I think, even China and India will likely baulk at it. North Korea probably will and some of the 'Stans' possibly.

    But otherwise they'll be meaningless. We may as well have a referendum now in the Republic and lay claim to the Six Counties and then demand them. International law doesn't work like that and all will know that these 'referendums' are merely a tool of war & Russian propaganda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    It's unlikely that NATO would put support troops on the ground in Ukraine, the Ukrainian army seems capable enough. But NATO could deliver devastating destruction to Russian military resources using electronic warfare, airpower and seapower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Of course they are meaninglessness, only an idiot would think otherwise but i don't think it matters a jot to Putin as he's living in his own little altered reality bubble of delusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    But if Putin responds by using another nuclear weapon, “you take off the gloves the second time around” and perhaps destroy Russia’s military forces in Ukraine, which the United States could readily do with conventional weapons. Perry realizes that these escalations would be approaching the kind of Dr. Strangelove scenarios that Herman Kahn wrote about. But if we end up fighting a war with Russia, that would be Putin’s choice, not ours.

    There are no low risk scenarios or responses to this conflict. Macron tried that and got slapped in the face and was made to look like a fool for his efforts, as Putin made a lie of almost everything Macron said about those exchanges. We are closer to nuclear weapons being used than at any time since the Cuban missile crisis. Putin has never responded favourably to pacifism or weakness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Yes...as long as they are Ukrainians manning said resources, which have been donated to Ukraine.

    I presume you are not advocating actual NATO forces attacking Russia directly. Because that would be crazy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11



    Missile strike at Chulakivka of Kherson region

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,860 ✭✭✭zv2


    ...

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    A nuclear scenario would be completely different.

    Just to be clear, my comments are in the context of the current conventional warfare scenario.



This discussion has been closed.
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