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solve the housing problem easily...some solutions?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    Why should someone be rewarded for not having a job, by handing them one of the most valuable assets most of us will ever own for free?

    And why should employed people be punished for having a job? Doesn't make logical sense.

    You can't keep giving away something valuable for free, and expect there to be no long term consequences. We're now seeing those consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Design a basic mobile home , energy effecient sustainable,with solar panels on it, good insulation, with fold up,down beds, suitable for 1 or 2 people ,i know 2 people who live in mobile homes,large with sat tv, power,water in a park .cost around 30k.give tax breaks to companys, that build and maintain parks.trailer parks can be designed to be good value, easy to heat, in area,s close to power and water.broadband avaidable the government owns land all over the country.maybe using recycled wood ,metal,plastic .

    Simplify the complex regulations, re living over a shop, to make it attractive to landlords .eg does every 3rd floor flat needs to be acessable by wheelchair users more tax credits for over the shop flats



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,918 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    re air bnb, i dont think there would be a market for that (or substantially reduced) if landlords could evict non paying tenant.

    think someone mentioned graveyards. bury vertically rather than horizontally would reduce the land requirement there.

    loads of good suggestions here, its a wonder the government dont try to implement some of them.

    i guess its a myriad of problems, both on the supply and demand side of things.

    are they addressing either side of that equation?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A geographically central location. Athlone? Motorways to each city , no limit autobahn types or limits of something that would make the furthest city connection an hour away.

    But,this sort of thinking is out of date with working from home. Cities are less important.

    We really have to stop and ask why we are in this situation in the first place. How was a poorer and more economically backward ireland, in the past, able to do better when it came to accommodation costs

    The elephant in the room....without which there would be less than replacement levels of population. We would only be building to replace buildings that needed demolition



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Offer proper social housing once. If the applicant refuses, remove them from the waiting list and direct them to a park bench.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,918 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    i think there can be proper social housing if the government adopt the pretty reasonable policy of, take a home where its given, else to the back of the queue.

    all these ghost estates down the country...make them not ghost estates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Most of the ghost estates have either been knocked or completely restored. Only a relatively small number remain as ghost estates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    What's going to happen is mass housing of the European kind. We don't really have the room to expand Dublin endlessly and it won't be long before you see 16 story tower blocks in every city. As long as they are not Grenfell death traps and the fire service get high level fire fighting vehicles, it should be okay. Of course, the fly in the ointment is that the most efficient way to heat tower blocks is with gas and the Greens won't tolerate that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    How much have building costs increased since the last boom?

    Most houses built were a C BER rating at best, no fancy heat pumps, 5 inches of kingspan, only a a few had underfloor.

    Couple that with material shortages and wage inflation due to lack of people in trades and it's easy to see where an extra 50k could land on the price of a standard house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    Build up not out.


    That should apply to the construction of housing also.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    I don't disagree with you about mass migration - it was always going to end in disaster.

    We had plenty of examples elsewhere to give us enough forewarning about the road we were going down. But certain obstinate people ignored those big flashing neon warning signs, and plowed on regardless.

    I mentioned the old corporation model, just as an outline starting point.

    There needs to be a social contract between the people and the government... you get cheap housing, but you get it in return for contributing to society. This model of handing out free houses to the chronically work shy, needs to be stopped. It's completely unsustainable in the long run, regardless of whether we have high migration or not.

    If you don't fancy contributing to society, you should be made to live like most poor people live in most parts of the world. I would be very confident, that given this choice MOST citizens would agree to this contract and play their part.

    I agree I don't want to see third world conditions either, but if we structured this system in an intelligent manner I really don't think many people would choose to live in squalor when given a viable alternative. It would not be a difficult contract to uphold. But of course you will always get a minority of people who will choose squalor over rolling their sleeves up a bit. But we already have these people anyway, regardless of how many free things we give them. Every nation has them, and to a certain degree it's unavoidable. But they would account for a very small fraction of the population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    I think this silly way of thinking is part of the problem, nobody said anything about living in rubbish dumps. The poster was talking about relaxing the regulations, as its an actual crisis we should be taking the mobile homes or cheaper housing options more seriously. We should be doing this, Building up and gradually cutting immigration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭macraignil


    The pace at which local authorities give zoning approval to land for residential use is ridiculously slow and needs to be reformed. I know of an area of land that was a small farm taken into the area of Cork city when it expanded its boundary three years ago and the area right next to a city bus stop and 30minutes walk from the city centre is still not zoned for development. The owners have been eager to sell it for housing for decades now but estate agents are only interested in selling it as agriculture land as this is what it is zoned as, or give it away for slightly more to allow some of their friends have it as a long term investment to make big money for them at some point in the future when it eventually gets built on. The owners approaches to the local authorities to allow them sell the land for residential use have been rejected and repeatedly fobbed off and it is only established developers seem to be able to work the system to get developments started on neighbouring sites. The local authorities should be identifying these types of sites and helping the owners get them developed.

    The number of derelict and underused buildings is very high and could also do with a process to help bring them into use. All local authorities should be required to identify all of the non used buildings in their administrative area and make estimates of how much it would cost to bring these buildings up to current basic standards for residential use. While they are at it the costs of servicing all vacant sites in urban areas should be looked at. If no development for residential or commercial use seems viable then assistance should be given by the local authority so it at least has some amenity use as a park or planted up in a way to improve the surrounding urban areas environmental quality. Sites and buildings where the ownership is unclear need to be brought into use and the land registry and existing repossession laws should be used by the local authorities to clear the way for these sites and buildings to be developed. The most efficiently finished and fastest sites and buildings to get into residential use should be dealt with first and the owners told to put them on the open market as development sites or get financial assistance options to bring the property up to standard to be occupied by a tenant or tenants. The rent for the fist few years could be channeled to repay the refurbishment and development costs and when these are refunded to the state the property stays as the property of the original owners to do with what they would like. The rent from the first few occupied properties would help fund the next round of developments under the scheme.

    Improvements and promotion of the apprenticeship schemes to increase the numbers qualified in building trades to get this work done more rapidly.

    Some building regulations have become law in parts of the country that obstruct people building a home that simply should not be there and these regulations need to be looked at to see which ones can be removed. I'm not saying have a free for all that anyone can build a house anywhere but the locals only regulations in many rural areas are pure discrimination based on where someone is born and should not be permitted under EU regulations on the free movement of EU citizens. I know some people think one off housing would destroy the country but if someone has the money to do this well and develops a home to fit into their environment these could be a valuable asset in rural areas becoming more economically vibrant and better places to live.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I find it appalling that our politicians and mandarins are driving this country to be a country of renters, at the mercy of corporate landlords and living from rent check to rent check



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not against high rise buildings but I like the idea of them being zoned together so there is maybe certain designated parts of cities where high rise could be clustered.


    We don't have a large population density compared to other EU countries so we should be able to build moderately higher buildings without the need to replicate New York or Hong Kong or places like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    There's more than money at play with Airbnb.

    Like here, some property owners will put up with the constant cleaning and presentation for airbnb because it means they have full control over their property. People who stay are likely well reviewed from previous airbnbs, pay ahead of time and in full, they stay for preset periods and that's that. No risk of bad tenant, no risk of overholding, no risk of no payments.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Speak freely on your plan to deal with the population growth problem, be thorough. Not everyone will sweep it under the carpet, the presumption it will be stops it from becoming a real debate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    High rises are not a solution to accommodation problems unless you literally have almost no land, which is not the case with Ireland. An apartment costs more to build per square metre than a house. There is no economy of scale when building vertically, it just costs more because of the extensive subterranian foundations required and the considerable cost of safety sytems and standards that need to be met.

    I't purely a planning and political problem. Enable more land to be built on and stop anyone other than individuals from building on it or from buying houses built on it. Part of the problem is this developer led house building model Ireland is so fond of. In Australia, it's extremely common for an individual to buy a block of land, get hold of a plan anf then get an independent builder to build the house on it after getting quotes. This is a cheaper system as the margins are lower because there is competition. Large scale developers charge large scale margins and drive up costs as they also reduce competitiion and can get away with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,734 ✭✭✭lalababa


    In South Central France (or anywhere in France really bar near the coast or in /very close to a major city) a new turn key 80m2 ,3bed, with a generous garden, complying with their 2020 building regulations...is..roughly ...and I'm not sugar coating this..120k.

    Look at the equivalent in Ireland ...300k for somewhere in Tipperary (roughly geographically similar).

    There is something amiss there.

    What is it?....🤔

    Can anyone guess?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,734 ✭✭✭lalababa


    The cost to build (June 2022 ) according to several industry sources is 2200/2500 /m2. 80m2x 2200 is 176,000. With a final price tag of circa 300k. That's for a 'one off' house.

    In France with the price being 120k subtract some costs...site 7,500 ,built in profit of 10% 12k..leaves you with cost of building of 100,000. According to some sources the build cost in france is anywhere from 500 to 1500 /m2. Let's take the middle ground of 1000 /m2...that's less than half the Irish cost of 2350 /m2.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Give me an immigrant who works his/her ass off every day (whether highly paid/on minimum wage) over an entitled Irish sponger who has no ambition beyond watching their ticket on the waiting, any day of the week.

    They will add far more to the fabric of our society than someone who not only wants something for nothing, but feels entitled to it. Safe in the knowledge that we are a country and society who will reward them for having lots of children yet do nothing to provide.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    High rise is a superb solution, I could name at least 50 cities where it has been a good idea. Personally I'm disgusted that Dublin isn't building up at a fast rate as cheap land close to where the jobs are doesn't exist in reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Geuze



    New 80 sqm 3-bedroom apts in French towns for 120k?

    Can you please name the towns, or even better, provide links to apts for sale?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    why would it be a bad thing if tourism suffered? Isn’t it essentially staffed by low paid non Irish who are in themselves adding to the housing pressures? I thought it was interesting that over lockdown, if I remember correctly, there was no real fall in income tax I think, despite all these businesses being . So what is the actual contribution?

    I think there are too many tourists and we have reached a point where the costs are greater than the benefits. Too many decisions are made with tourists in mind rather than residents. There is no way residents’ accommodation needs should be compromised for tourists. Airbnb should definitely be banned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    I agree with the sentiment. Agree that they’re good workers, have brought fantastic skills from which we’re benefiting. And yes I’d gladly swap them for our wasters. The thing is though that we can’t do an exchange. And now, and for quite a number of years, with the best will in the world, we just don’t have room for any more. Why is it such a terrible thing to say this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭macraignil


    No its not. The costs of high rise developments make those type of apartments very expensive according to professional surveyors. The study referred to in the link puts the cost of a low rise apartment(which I think means less than 6floors) in Dublin at 359,000euro and an apartment in a high rise at 619,000euro. I've no issue with people living in a high rise apartment block if that is what they want to do but there are only a limited number of people in the country with incomes to cover the cost of living in this type of apartment so for a large number of people this is not a solution to their housing needs. The country is not short of land considering the relatively low density of population in the country and its just the willingness of government to allow more areas to be zoned and developed for residential use. Government here says it wants to do something about housing but in reality it is more concerned about keeping property prices high so those who have already secured some property can believe they are in a prosperous country and vote them into a job again in the next election.

    Post edited by macraignil on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Absolutely but the world is full of go getters but we don't have the housing or infrastructure to facilitate them.

    At this stage the number of ambitious workers coming through Dublin airport arrivals is to the detriment of the native population. Especially the younger generation.

    I would much rather see our young people stay in Ireland and have families of their own than accommodate an enthusiastic German, Nigerian, Spaniard etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Well, look to the biggest costs. Labour, materials, land, tax, profit.

    Something must be cost less in those French builds.

    Now, take labour as an example, there's not many builders, plumbers and electricians earning less than 50k for site work. Some of the private trades are up in the 70-80k handy enough. High demand, low supply.

    It's good news for someone who wants to buy in the south of France.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ok so we build up and build high density, then what?

    We have become like England and while our living footprint is minimised we have still expanded our primary industry footprints (agricultural, mining etc). England is still increasing in population and has been expanding despite high density.

    Eventually you have to draw a line. Why not now?



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