Random EV thoughts.....

Fingleberries · 21-09-2022 4:03pm

I know I might be talking heresy, but what would the odds be of a charging provider here actually using hub technology as seen on the continent or even in some locations in the UK - e.g. a shelter or roof (with solar panels) and battery storage to help reduce the overall reliance on the grid and perhaps soften the costs / price to deliver power to EVs.

I think VW with BP/Aral were using some sort of battery tech to create charge posts that would help provide 'fast' charging without a massive grid connection.

the_amazing_raisin · 21-09-2022 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119646927#Comment_119646927

So I think we can discount ESB from that. They seem to think that Mayfield is the greatest thing in history and the worst idea would be to try and improve on that

EasyGo probably won't install a big hub either. They don't really have the money to invest in HPCs except in a few locations, so they'll probably stick with 50kW DC

Ionity are planning to expand by 2025, although we're still waiting on any actual news of that. They seem to be going for 6 units per hub now based on the last few sites, but there's also existing sites that need expanding. Based on what they've built to date, I don't think they'll have proper shelters, just the parking spot style chargers

Tesla are as always great for showing what you could do with some real foresight, and are actively expanding. However I think they're renting all their sites, so are unlikely to have anything beyond the chargers at a location

I think the best bet you'll see is from the likes of Applegreen and Circle K and other forecourt providers. Based on what we're seeing at the like of Ballymount, Clonsaugh and the planned M3 site, they're getting behind EV charging in a big way. They also like have all those sweet petrodollars to throw money at building proper hubs. Service stations have known for years that the real money is in facilities, not fuel, and the prospect of pinning a bunch of hungry/thirsty people at your site for 30 mins or so is practically a forecourt managers wet dream

(Sorry for the horrifying mental image 😂)

I think the other providers in Ireland are too small to count. We might have luck if Fastned or Gridserve decide to move here, but they've enough problems expanding in their own countries

Calahonda52 · 21-09-2022 4:18pm

In a normal market, the PSO levy and other fixed monthly esb networks charges for a 50KW are savage.

PSO for less than 30 kVA is fixed, above that is per kVA and above 40 is even higher

the_amazing_raisin · 21-09-2022 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119646993#Comment_119646993

Yeah I think the PSO levy might have to go, I mean it's supposed to pay for reneweables, but they're all having to pay back their profits anyway

The grid fees should handle the infrastructure costs, so I don't see the sense in the PSO levy for the time being

Calahonda52 · 21-09-2022 5:53pm

PSO gone negative from Oc 22 to Sept 23

kanuseeme · 21-09-2022 5:59pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg0SQ4EdKp4

7 year old Kia Soul gets brand new 30 kWh battery on warranty, 25 % degradation on only a 100000 km car, ugly car but the charge port is in the front.

Reminded me of the tesla guys getting rid of their 2014 model S before the warranty expires,

Is this common for KIA ?

zg3409 · 22-09-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647412#Comment_119647412

Newer Kia's and Hyundai have different batteries from even a few years ago. Actual degredation depends on battery chemistry, no cooling, forced air cooling, liquid cooling and number of fast charges and age. It's hard to generalise but more modern batteries and cars tend to have very few issues with degredation. There is also hidden reserves so a 28kWh car actually has a bigger battery than stated and so it's actually more than 25% needs to be lost. Many EVs now also have mileage limits to warranty such as 160,000km which could be easily passed in 7 years. So replacements will happen but it's unlikely many will be paid by the manufacturer. It's more likely back street garages will repair or swap packs and cars with reduced range will be used by those that can live with less range. As packs get bigger a 25% reduction in range won't make the car unable to perform daily tasks.

sh81722 · 23-09-2022 10:33am

This early Kia battery cooling system seems to suffer from a design fault where some of the top battery modules of the can overheat and degrade. The design was fixed on the later forced aircooled design of Hyundai Ioniq which also uses fan to aid with cooling. I think the current Soul uses liquid cooling like the most others do.

PaulJoseph22 · 26-09-2022 8:28am

public charging in U.K..

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-charging-an-electric-car-surges-by-42-caused-by-rise-in-energy-costs-12705528Cost of charging an electric car surges by 42% - with prices nearing the same as petrol

blob:https://www.boards.ie/c963d301-ef30-4450-968b-7a640f52b7e5

sh81722 · 26-09-2022 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665350#Comment_119665350

The domestic charging is also getting more expensive. My spend from next month will go up by 20%. In the past month the car has consumed 411 kWh with a cost of approx. €40 for the 2700 km driven. It's getting very expensive indeed.

If you rely on the public charging for any percentage of driving you start to notice the higher charges for sure. Tesla has gone from 28 c/kWh to 59 cents since we bought the car but luckily don't need to rely on those chargers often.

ELM327 · 26-09-2022 10:38am

Yeah if I was relying on the SuC network I'd have bought a used S with lifetime free supercharging.

slave1 · 26-09-2022 1:32pm

Did you see the Hummer EV reviews, 210kWh battery!!!!!!!!!

sh81722 · 26-09-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666622#Comment_119666622

4 hours charging time when you arrive in Lahinch with a low battery :-)

ELM327 · 26-09-2022 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666622#Comment_119666622

Yes but it's useless because of the shocking inefficiency.

wassie · 26-09-2022 5:31pm

This report (which itself refers to the Inside EV report) has it at 1.6 miles/kWh or 38.9 kWh/100km.

mailforkev · 26-09-2022 8:57pm

That Hummer really is a shocking waste of the Earth’s resources. They’re selling on the grey market for twice the actual price too.

ELM327 · 27-09-2022 9:50am

I'd love one btw but way too expensive for me even forgetting taxes on import.

pjdarcy · 27-09-2022 10:04am

Random thought that popped into my head last night...

Firstly, let me preface this by saying that I know almost nothing about how my EV charger works (or electricity for that matter) so the following idea could be absolutely insane...

Would it be possible to have a high speed charger at home by having a battery installed at home that could charge the battery in your EV.

i.e. I'm thinking that it would work like this

charge the home battery overnight at the usual night time charging rate and charging speed
once the home battery is charged, plug the car into it and it could deliver a charging speed higher than the normal 7kWh of your home charger.

So, am I a simpleton or a genius? (I suspect the former)

Fitz II · 27-09-2022 10:26am

The discharge rate of home batteries is not going to get you more than 7kwh, honestly you would be lucky to get 3kwh out of a system. Best just charge the car overnight and save youself all the battery loss and cost.

pjdarcy · 27-09-2022 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670059#Comment_119670059

Dammit, I thought I was going to be the next Elon Musk there for a minute!

markpb · 27-09-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670124#Comment_119670124

FWIW some high speed chargers use a system a little like what you described. If the grid can’t supply power at a high enough rate, they trickle feed a battery when not in use. Then they use a combination of grid and battery to charge the car faster than would normally be possible.

liamog · 27-09-2022 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670124#Comment_119670124

It's not technically impossible, it's well within the realms of engineering to build a static battery that could be installed at home, slow charge, and then allow you to use a DC connector to charge your car. However the costs involved would be very high. In order to allow greater charging speeds than the cars on-board charger you'd need to use DC, so would need the hardware for that, there are low power CCS chargers on the market that you could use https://www.carplug.eu/ecotap-fast-charging-station-dc-30kw-chademo-plug-charge

You'd need a battery powerful enough to run the DC charger and a capacity high enough to hold a decent charge for the car. All-in all you're probably looking at over €20,000 for a system that has to compete with plugging in for a few extra hours. It might be useful for those couple of times a year you return home with a low state of charge and need to leave after an hour, but the majority would be better served by a proper DC charging infrastructure in their locality instead of spending so much money.

ELM327 · 27-09-2022 11:14am

If you were running a taxi and needed to do more than the cars range a lot of the time (so the car was literally never off the road, eg one car with 2 drivers) then it would make sense. You can absolutely buy DC chargers that are 7kW when grid connected but 30-50kW if the battery for the DC charger is full.

innrain · 27-09-2022 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670124#Comment_119670124

https://www.dcbel.energy/uk/r16-specs/

No surprise you can't buy it. While in theory sounds good it has no commercial value added to compel purchase. 7.2 kW *9 hours night tariff gives you some 64kWh or about 400km of driving range every day.

kanuseeme · 27-09-2022 1:27pm

You might be lucky and have 3 phase near your property, I don't know the cost of getting a 3 phase supply, but once in you can then charge at 22 kW AC for much the same as what a 7 kW charger costs, or buy a DC charger for your 3 phase supply.

AC will be limited by the car, I imagine DC would be limited by your pocket.

Fitz II · 27-09-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670914#Comment_119670914

Standing charges on a 3 Phase are over 100 euro a month before you use any power, 3 phase to the home install at least 10k. Not a practical solution for the average home user.

Lots of people charge their battery system on night rate (myself included) to deal with the morning household load. Problem is cars can draw such massive ammounts of power that it will empty 10kw of batteries in a hour or less. The simple solution is just set the car to charge at night, you are using the cars battery to to the storage, introducing another battery in the middle seems unnecessary.

JohnC. · 27-09-2022 1:59pm

Anything EV related in the budget? I'd only kept an eye on a couple of live-blog things rather than watching the full speech and saw no mention.

zg3409 · 27-09-2022 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669976#Comment_119669976

In USA normal homes can charge EVs at higher rates than 7kW. Even now most home chargers are 32 amp and most houses have a 60 amp supply so most homes without supply modification could supply 14kW to a car, if the charger, cable and car could handle 14kW single phase. (None can that I am aware)

In the USA many cars can charge faster than in Ireland. In mainland Europe houses being able to charge at 22kW AC is common.

In terms of fast charging using a battery combination the equipment exists but you are looking at 20,000 euro + maybe double this. Taxi companies ( in UK) have installed private 50kW chargers and some companies here too like an post for heavy lorries EV. There are some dedicated taxi only EV chargers here as it's determined that taxis need specific infrastructure such as at Dublin airport taxi only waiting queue.

What is better value for money is no house battery, and using the battery in the car to supply power to house at peak price times. This already exists in ID4 but the house side equipment and software does not exist. It's likely this will be rolled out in Germany first, car to house and later car to grid to create a massive nationwide network of batteries in cars that can help the grid at peak times. As the batteries already exist there is less cost involved and the cars would tend to be plugged in at home during peak 4-7pm hours. Off peak the car can recharge back up. It's not essential tech and lots of possible delays and regulations problems.