Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671703#Comment_119671703

He wasn't violent in that scenario. You are deliberately conflating meanings of words here. He used no force.

You seem to be pasting sections from a book verbatim, perhaps you could share the name of this book?

He has no record of violence to anyone other than Jules in a domestic scenario.

tibruit · 27-09-2022 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671819#Comment_119671819

I seem to remember him mentioning beating up a boy in a pub in his diary. Should I even bother to go check or will your reply be "ah yeah, but that`s not a woman outside a domestic scenario."

Back to Leo....was that conviction before or after he made his statement?

Ms Robini · 27-09-2022 6:16pm

Violence against women is not confined to hitting, biting, kicking and gouging - all of which features in the attacks on Jules - it also includes unwanted and non-consensual sexual touching. The woman was asleep in bed - he had no right whatsoever to take off his clothes and get into that bed beside her and start touching her - none; it was an assault. Plain and simple. Assault = violence. That it didn’t draw blood does not mean it lacked the element of violence - the uninvited intrusion, the physical touching of a woman while she was sleeping was an act which terrified (yes terrified) the victim in that scenario. If you cannot see or choose not to see that as violent that is a matter for yourself.

I have read books on this subject, yes. I am not quoting from them but research on the case since 1996 has informed my views.

To say Bailey has no record of violence against anyone other than Jules is quite telling - it minimises the violence towards Jules, which was a particularly savage and brutal instance of domestic violence - it was not in anyway ordinary or commonplace - as noted from the bench by a Circuit Court Judge with extensive experience of family law and domestic violence cases.

There have also been accounts (some of them Bailey’s) which suggest the marriage to Sarah Limbrick was characterised by violence - for example Bailey punching or hitting the wall and/or throwing items in a rage while Ms Limbrick was in the room. There was also an account (again Bailey’s) of an attempted strangling of Ms Limbrick. There is also an account of a life insurance policy having been taken out by Bailey in respect of Limbrick and a question of suspected forgery of that policy…

Like Judge Patrick Moran, I would have no hesitation in describing Bailey as violent. You are of course entitled to take a different view.

Gussie Scrotch · 27-09-2022 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671703#Comment_119671703

No.Trying it on with a house guest, getting rejected and accepting the rejection cannot be equated with sexual violence.

Rather pathetic, yes. Boorish behaviour, yes.

Sexual violence, no.

Gussie Scrotch · 27-09-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672413#Comment_119672413

This is a totally different conversation.

What happened to Sophie was extreme, lethal violence. It may have been sexually motivated , it may not.

But is was raw, unrestrained brutal violence.

To suggest an equivalence between what happened to Sophie and inappropriate touching or a clumsy sexual advance is nonsense.

Ms Robini · 27-09-2022 6:42pm

He had no right to do that to Colette Gallagher - it is going further than ‘trying it on’ - he got into the bed beside her while she was asleep and started touching her without her consent. That is an assault - you can try to call it ‘trying it on’ but it was an assault.

And I am not saying the assault on Colette Gallagher was similar to the murder of Sophie. I was illustrating that it is not true to say Bailey had no history of sexual violence.

Gussie Scrotch · 27-09-2022 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672529#Comment_119672529

Call it whatever you like.

What happened to Sophie was totally different.

Ms Robini · 27-09-2022 7:13pm

Murder is very different to assault, I agree. The commonality is violence. The common feature here is violence against women.

jimwallace197 · 27-09-2022 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672637#Comment_119672637

You're talking through your arse. He had two domestic violence issues with Jules, at least one where she attacked him first scratching at his face, doesnt make him a psychopatic murderer. Any violence against men or women in a domestic setting should be condemned but theres more to it than you're letting on.

Go back to twitter where you belong.

Ms Robini · 27-09-2022 7:42pm

I’m stating facts; they may be unpalatable to you, prompting you to lash out, which I can see from your commentary is typical of you when faced with facts that point towards guilt.

‘Two domestic violence issues’ - you mean two very violent assaults on his partner whom he hospitalised. Her eye was left permanently damaged - that’s not an ‘issue’; that is a violent assault by a 6ft2 man on a slim/frail woman 8 years his senior. There is no ‘but’ - it’s a serious, violent crime and the person who perpetrated it is a seriously violent criminal.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2022 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672127#Comment_119672127

You 'seem' to remember this? He beat up a boy in a pub and there was no Garda involvement? Something in that story doesn't add up does it.

Yeah, remind us again. After how many years did Leo Bolger miracoulously recover this suppressed memory of an entirely mundane (at the time) event?

Who knows what shenanigans, what favours are traded forwards or backwords from a criminal offering up information he thinks might be of use to someone.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672413#Comment_119672413

What % of households would you say are characterized by violence if that is the ridiculously low bar you are setting.

There was no violence, no threat of force towards the person, in the incident you described.

You are deliberately misrepresenting one thing as another.

And if that is the low bar you are setting give us the number of people in West Cork it applies to. You have a very wide range of suspects you are therefore ignoring if inappropriate touching counts as 'violence'.

"There have been accounts." What accounts? Where? Everytime you are asked for sources or proof of any of these claims you respond with nonsense.

This Judge Patrick Moran? Who gave out a suspended sentence to one Leo Bolger, out of line completely with other sentences given out for similar offences???

Detective Sergeant Fergal Foley said the cultivation of the cannabis was the most sophisticated operation of its kind seen in west Cork.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20122724.html

elacsap · 27-09-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670608#Comment_119670608

Thanks Xander,

Walking to Sophie's house and then walking home via Kilfada Bridge seems very, very far-fetched. What I'm trying to understand is why the Guards's position is that Bailey undertook such heroic hiking rather than simply going by car.

Ms Robini · 27-09-2022 8:56pm

This information/these accounts are in the public domain.

Touching a sleeping woman (a veritable stranger with no opportunity to give consent) after getting into bed beside her naked/semi-naked is an assault; it terrified her; it is in no way a ‘ridiculously low bar’ for violence or to describe that as violent. Ian Bailey had no right whatsoever to do that to Colette Gallagher or to anyone. You are seeking to trivialise something that Bailey did to a woman that terrified her and that was a criminal assault and 100% wrong on every level.

odyssey06 · 27-09-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119673120#Comment_119673120

Nope. The claims may be. I am asking for proof or facts to back them up not rumours and lies and unsupported claims by a random person online.

And by bracketing actual violent assaults the same as all these other behaviours imo it is you who diminish them. The word becomes meaningless and redundant.

Once again you are unable to answer any of the questions put to you.

None of the information presented here makes Bailey any less or more likely to be guilty of such a murder.

Ms Robini · 27-09-2022 9:17pm

I have provided a response - this information is well recounted and available in the public domain.

Violence is violence - agreed there is a scale and what happened to Sophie was off that scale in terms of the brutality and severity of that attack. The assaults on Jules Thomas were also extremely violent, although did not result in death, notwithstanding Bailey wrote about making her feel death was near. The assault on Colette Gallagher did not involve the same kind of infliction of physical violence on her person but it did involve non-consensual touching of a sexual nature and it put her in fear for her safety - therefore, it was a violent act. The world and this incident should not be seen only through Ian Bailey’s eyes - look at it from the woman’s point of view. She was asleep in bed, she woke up and he was in the bed beside her touching her and he was naked/semi-naked. She ran terrified from the property.

I have nothing further to say at this point.

tibruit · 27-09-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672950#Comment_119672950

"He beat up a boy in a pub and there was no Garda involvement."

In his own words yes. Just as there were a number of assaults on Jules by 1993 by his own admission and we know about another in `96 and the one a few years after that again when the Gardaí finally caught up with him in Cork Airport. The narrative that there were just three assaults is not correct.

"After how many years did Leo Bolger miraculously recover his suppressed memory?"

He didn`t recover a suppressed memory. He was never asked by Gardaí about the meeting until he was arrested 2010. But he was lined up as witness for the libel trial four years earlier by lawyer Paula Mullooly where he was going to testify under oath that he was present when Alfie introduced Bailey to Sophie. Mullooly confirmed this to West Cork Podcast. It`s on Episode 12 about 36 minutes in. Bolger describes the meeting in some detail.

"Who knows what shenanigans"

None in 2006 when Bolger was prepared to swear it on the bible four years before he became a criminal.

27-09-2022 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672127#Comment_119672127

It was a boy and was in his diary. When challenged in court [libel or one of his cases against the state] he tried to say it was man or young man but it was pointed out to him his diary says "boy". It is mentioned in Foster's book

27-09-2022 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672748#Comment_119672748

I’m stating facts; they may be unpalatable to you, prompting you to lash out, which I can see from your commentary is typical of you when faced with facts that point towards guilt.

spot on

tinytobe · 27-09-2022 11:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670620#Comment_119670620

Bailey knowing Sophie doesn't prove murder. Maybe it did to the local Guards, in all irony.

I would have been surprised if Bailey never heard of Sophie or never heard of the name Toscan du Plantier at all. However I doubt that he ever had any good connection to her. Sophie was rarely in Ireland anyway, and neither herself nor Bailey's work would have had any connections at all. Maybe Bailey considered writing an article for a local newspaper, but Sophie would have objected to that fearing her anonymity she enjoyed there during her vacation. Any disagreements around that wouldn't have lead to murder and any article wouldn't have given Bailey a large sum anyway.

flanna01 · 28-09-2022 12:14am

Any word on Nick Foster?

Wasn't he about to drop an atomic bomb style revelation that would condemn Bailey without a shadow of a doubt?

You would have thought he'd be banging his drum all the way through this cold case review...

FishOnABike · 28-09-2022 7:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674229#Comment_119674229

Wait until the run up to Christmas. Plenty of books to be sold then.

elacsap · 28-09-2022 7:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674229#Comment_119674229

I really find it hard to take Foster seriously.........he seems like a bit of a moron to me. [I admit that I'm only a little familiar with his book. I listed to the first few chapters on Audible and honestly could take no more.]

The "bombshell" he was promising is just one of many examples as to why I'd treat what he says with much circumspection.

tinytobe · 28-09-2022 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674525#Comment_119674525

I wouldn't take Foster serious. He obviously wants to make money with his book.

chooseusername · 28-09-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672999#Comment_119672999

Walking from his house to Sophie's house, then down to Kealfada bridge and back home the shortest route is over 11 km, so 2.5 - 3 hours.

The problem with that is the man Marie Farrell said she saw was walking in the opposite direction towards Goleen.

Marie Farrell was relatively new to the area and lived down in Crew Bay area, a good distance from Sophie's and Bailey's houses.

In fact she wasn't aware of where Sophie lived at all until Jim Sheridan pointed it out to her.

I'm saying this because I believe that when the Gardaí wanted to "place" Bailey near the crime scene Marie offered up this sighting.

Unfortunately the man she said she saw was in the wrong place and going in the wrong direction.

A few reasons why he couldn't be put in the car, too difficult to recognise driving by in a car, the car would be missed from the house when Jules' daughters returned around that time, almost impossible to not leave any traces of blood in the car (even using the bleach he bought), unlikely to be stupid enough to turn up at murder scene in the same car the next day. So it made more sense to have him walking.

What I'm implying is IF Marie was driving around that night and IF she did see a man on the the bridge, it was unlikely to be Ian Bailey.

map.jpg

Xander10 · 28-09-2022 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675114#Comment_119675114

That assumes he went out with the intention of murder. If he went out based on some previous meeting with her and thought he was onto some romantic liaison, then hopping in the car for a quickie, while Jules was conked out drunk, would be the quickest way to get there and back unnoticed. And maybe a rejection drove him to act with rage in the spur of the moment.

All speculation, but just to point out why a journey by car would be more logical.

chooseusername · 28-09-2022 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675215#Comment_119675215

IF he actually went, then that would be logical,

If he didn't go but the Gardaí wanted to "place" him there, then Shank's mare made more sense, If you see what I mean.

Xander10 · 28-09-2022 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675241#Comment_119675241

I think the incompetence of the gardai, i.e. preserving the murder scene etc and Harbison rocking up over 24 hour later, means all worthwhile DNA evidence etc was lost forever.

elacsap · 28-09-2022 11:11am

We all know a journey by car is more logical. The heroic hiking is implausible beyond belief - yet seemingly that's where the cops are at?! At Kilfada Bridge, a pretty clever guy hears a car coming in the dead of night on his wrong way home and instead of hiding starts flailing his hands in the air like an idiot? Gimme a break!

In fairness to Chooseusername, he has come up with as good an explanation as I've seen as to why the cops are maintaining the heroic hiking approach.

I'm relatively new to studying this case so again what I'm about to say may not be 100%. But........whatever misgivings I have about Foster, that one Farrell seems to be just off the scale nuts.

Chooseusername - I noticed the bit you are referring to in Sheridan's documentary where he had to point out to Farrell where poor Sophie lived. Not knowing this on that fateful night in December 1996 is completely understandable - not knowing this now is, just about, as crazy as it gets and truly beggars all belief.

flanna01 · 28-09-2022 12:21pm

It's the turkey scratches on his arms, and the fact that he was missing from the bedroom that night, that shone the spotlight on Bailey.

It's understandable really.

Of course, Bailey didn't shy away from the spotlight either, another reason why he found himself in the cross hairs.

Looking back, it appears that the Guards put all their chips on Bailey and blinkered themselves.

It was the perfect storm.

Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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