Tesla Model 3 - V3.0

gallagheri · 28-09-2022 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675880#Comment_119675880

Don't get me wrong I agree with all the points you mentioned. Was just trying to validate my understanding of the issue (I just ordered the car and trying to get a hang of the whole EV/Tesla stuff). I agree it's a problem with the way the battery is advertised and the WLTP figures and should be made clear by Tesla.

jordan191 · 28-09-2022 1:40pm

I understand where you're coming from, but as far as i know Tesla don't advertise battery size in their specs, so technically they're not misleading anyone. It is a 60Kwh battery but they currently have it locked as a buffer & will probably unlock the additional buffer in the future

AndyBoBandy · 28-09-2022 2:00pm

Tesla increased the WLTP advertised range 409km to 448km to 491km over the past 3 years.

There was also a very short lived 428km WLTP version here which was a Fremont SR+ with original CATL battery and the heat pump as well as the interior refresh, and very soon afterwards our SR+ started coming from China with the LFP battery (which then became the 448km version).

slave1 · 28-09-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675797#Comment_119675797

Yes, there is range loss on-board. It's okay for folk like us to "know" there's an extra 30km range below zero but that's not the point. In car sat nav will not recognise this and decline a possible journey or route unnecessarily for a charging session.

I don't need a 30minute reroute (taking into time distance reroute and potential charging time) when there's no need for it whatsoever

eagerv · 28-09-2022 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675673#Comment_119675673

I wish that Tesla would show the total energy you are using, not just the energy while driving. You cannot rely on the energy used from the trip computer, I am sure the powerful chip, sitting in car with all on, plus of course Sentry etc add a good whack to this figure.

My last car showed a total including all usage, so if you were stationary you could see what car was using, usually up to 2kW in normal weather, but much more in cold weather.

The trip will not show you totally energy used, more accurate is what goes back in..

mc2022B2TF · 28-09-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676496#Comment_119676496

Next software update I believe the "energy" app is going to include all of this data.

However on a dry day, no Aircon, no phone charging and no sentry is when I've done the tests so very little in reality is going to anything other than powering the car.

As I've said before tesla have actually confirmed the massive buffer to me. Just looking for confirmation from a wider sample size that got rwds delivered in September 2022.

Zurbaran · 28-09-2022 10:24pm

What confuses me is the amount they are taking in. I know there is losses involved but if I took in 54kWh 11% or whatever it was and others have done matching amounts at different percentages of battery and have had it verified by their charger.. Where did it all go if there is only 52kWh from 100 to 0? That seems a massive amount of loss?

mfceiling · 28-09-2022 11:28pm

Quick question.

Tyre size on the car is 235 35 20.

Anything stopping me from going 235 45 20?

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 12:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678278#Comment_119678278

Although this guy is a bit of a nerd and also based in the US it does give a good idea of how charging loss works.

https://youtu.be/AiCSnwoAs0c

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 12:27am

Basically forget about trying to extrapolate out from what your charger says or the cars says when it comes to charging, you're guessing with waaaay too much margin for error.

Either:

Get tesla to verify your usable battery

Use the scan my tesla app

Or do the real world test I have outlined last night

Cheers.

No one yet has been able to post any data to refute my calcs using any of the above parameters so it is looking like September rwd m3's are all at a usable battery of circa 52kWh

drver1 · 29-09-2022 10:58am

This was from 8%, got 56 kWh MIC Sept 2022 M3 From Supercharger.

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679530#Comment_119679530

Sorry but that's not what we are looking for.

Out of interest what did u get charged for I.e. in the app how many kwh were u charged for?

If u have a screenshot of your trips screen before u charged that would also be interesting

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 11:06am

Like there is no way 56kwh went into your car. Given the battery only has 60.5kwh and has a hard buffer of about 3kwh.

I genuinely think the calculation used there is on the assumption that 100% to 0% is 60kwh.

In other words it's useless

drver1 · 29-09-2022 11:51am

App says 54

AndyBoBandy · 29-09-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675955#Comment_119675955

This.

Tesla have never advertised battery sizes, only range.

People bought a car that can do 491km in the WLTP cycle, and what size battery is under the floor is irrelevant in that regard. 491km would be achievable with easy enough driving. In my Fremont SR+ with 409km WLTP, I can easily hit and exceed the WLTP figures (this summer in Lithuania I managed 218km using 52% battery, which works out at 419km for a 100% charge).

I'd be delighted getting into a new RWD now with that 8kWh buffer, as chances are if/when any battery degradation occurs, it'll come out of that huge buffer, and the range the car had on day 1 will probably still be there after 150,000km...

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679954#Comment_119679954

Sorry but you don't really get it. RWD delivered early 2022 has a WLTP of 491km. RWD delivered in September also has the same WLTP but approx 5kWh bigger buffer.

So the 2 can't be the same i'm afraid for WLTP. Although Tesla don't advertised battery size (lack of transparency but thats for another day), the WLTP range has the battery size as part of the equation.

The only way i can match the same range as the early 2022 deliveries (that were advertised exactly the same for WLTP) is to drive waaay past zero.

You are also making assumptions on future degradation coming out of the buffer and we should be delighted about that. I'd take a longer range right now and it degrading to the current range over time - i think that's a bit of a no brainer and your argument makes zero sense in this regard.

Thank you.

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679803#Comment_119679803

what does your invoice say out of interest?

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 1:11pm

FYI on a usable battery of 57kWh (early 2022 RWD's) you would need to average 117 wh/km to achieve a WLTP range of 491km - so 8.6km per kWh

On a usable battery of 52kWh (September 2022 RWD's) you would need to average 106 wh/km to achieve a WLTP range of 491km - so 9.44km per kWh.

I mean i don't think i can dumb it down any further.

No wonder Tesla don't advertise battery sizes alright then you might actually be able to question their figures in a transparent way.

Anyone here know a 491km route downhill so i can get 106 wh/km.....................

slave1 · 29-09-2022 1:47pm

You are also making assumptions on future degradation coming out of the buffer and we should be delighted about that.

On my Model S the buffer was static and the degradation was of the usable element (9% after 7 years)

slave1 · 29-09-2022 1:50pm

In other news, got Sonic, Cat Quest and Cup Head added as games but more interestingly Sat Nav now offers 3 routes to choose from (so similar to Google Maps).

Software update

AndyBoBandy · 29-09-2022 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680212#Comment_119680212

Anyone here know a 491km route downhill so i can get 106 wh/km.....................

Would you believe me if I said I've driven the below route on many occasions (in summer) and kept the consumption below 105wh/km (in a Fremont SR+)

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680449#Comment_119680449

Yes i would.

Best I've seen on a trip in mine was 118 wh/km but that was a round trip so allowed for elevation both ways - i couldn't go one way and teleport the car back home for me. But that really is very very slow and careful driving.

What size is the battery pack in the FM SR+? I presume smaller and more importantly lighter so i'm assuming capable of better efficiency. So unless you can do it in a RWD 60.5kWh pack, i don't want to know lol

mc2022B2TF · 29-09-2022 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680347#Comment_119680347

Yes, what i was thinking. Buffer seems set and comes off the nominal full pack. So if the nominal full pack degrades then so does your usable portion. And with a higher buffer your usable battery will actually degrade MORE the bigger buffer you have. Which is obviously a bad thing.

jusmeig · 29-09-2022 2:51pm

Took the recommendation from someone on this forum to visit Padraic/John in Flawless Detailing, very impressed with the job.

The guys were excellent, and did PPF on front, A pillars, rocker panels, lower doors and cargo area, coating the lot in Xpel fusion ceramic.

I got a call from Padraic with videos of some defect contamination he found on the passenger side, tiny specs all along the front of the car. He was able to polish them out to the point I could not see them. I guess it will never be this clean again :D

reni10 · 29-09-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680526#Comment_119680526

You should post your findings over here and ask for others to verify as there would be a good few more people over there to do the test you are looking for: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-sr-lfp-battery-range-degradation-etc-discussion.244385/page-40

innrain · 29-09-2022 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680365#Comment_119680365

Looking forward for these alternate routes.

eamondunphy · 29-09-2022 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680740#Comment_119680740

Looks great would you mind pm me the price please, looking to getting it done on my model 3 soon

wassie · 29-09-2022 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676093#Comment_119676093

There was also a very short lived 428km WLTP version here which was a Fremont SR+ with original CATL battery and the heat pump as well as the interior refresh

Thats me! Took delivery in Dec 2020 and just tipped over 70,000km this week.

No idea of how my battery health is. All I know is that I charge my battery strictly in accordance with the guidelines in the owners manual. All reports seem to indicate if I keep doing that then I should be in good shape for some time to come.

I am finding all this talk of useable battery & buffers highly amusing. I appreciate the concerns are genuine and not mocking them. But for me given the amount of AC & DC charging I do every week on my 50kW battery, I would wreck my head pretty quickly if I was worried about that missing 5%.

Paint protection is also something that would be wasted on me. No "ceramic" coat is going to protect my bonnet from a stray rock at 120kmh. Just did my annual clay bar and acrylic glaze in prep for winter on the weekend and its looking great - so easy bringing the white back to life.

All I know is the M3 is the best car I've every driven and takes a lot of that fatigue out of distance driving for me. And supercharging is the cream on top!

Gumbo · 29-09-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680740#Comment_119680740

The etching looked like someone rubbed off dirt spots. I seen the photos of it.

It further highlights the soft Tesla Paint. I think it was me that recommended Padraic :)

Gumbo · 29-09-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681704#Comment_119681704

Ceramic Coating won't protect against chips, but a front end PPF would if you do big motorway mileage.

Tesla Model 3 - V3.0

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