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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    A mother-of-two from Dublin has criticised the Government for not raising the threshold for retrofitting grants far enough as part of its Budget 2023 measures.

    Rebecca O’Reilly wants to retrofit her home in Ballyfermot to make it more energy-efficient.

    She works full time but despite being on a lower income, Ms O’Reilly would be forced to pay a prohibitive fee of €15,000 upfront if she wants to make the necessary changes to her home.

    Ms O’Reilly, a single mother to a six-year-old and three-year-old, can access grants to cover up to 51pc of the cost of a deep retrofit but said she cannot afford to pay the upfront fees.

    “My house is old and so it’s not the best in the sense of retaining heat,” she said. “In the winter, it can get really cold in the house.

    "So I thought I would look into the retrofitting and see what the grants are and if they could maybe help.

    “To get a free-of-charge grant you have to be on social welfare payments, which I don’t receive.

    “If I was to get the retrofit, it would cost me €12,000 to €15,000 upfront.

    “The bottom line is if I wanted to get anything retrofitted in my house to help with efficiency and energy and get rid of the mould in the house, I’d have to have between €12,000 and €15,000, which is not something that I have.

    “It’s unfortunate because I’m trying to do things the right way; I’m working full time and trying to show my kids it’s good to be out there working and not having to rely on social welfare.

    “If I was to pack my job in and just rely on the Government, then I can get the house retrofitted, which just seems a bit backwards in my opinion.


    “I find that these grants are always helping either those on a very low income or those on full social welfare support.

    "Then there are people that can afford it because they are on a higher-end salary and then there are those in the middle ground, where there’s no help.

    “I am on the lower middle where I am just over that threshold


    “If I reduced my hours and got social welfare then I could get the grant but then I wouldn’t have as much money coming in to the house.

    “You try and do things the right way. There’s also an attitude of a single parent taking money from the Government. I want to get it up to an A or B rating because at the moment, when I knock the heating off, it’s cold after half an hour.

    "If the house was efficient, it would hold the heat.

    “The payment up front is just not feasible,” she said.

    "The grant is brilliant but it’s only helping people who have that kind of money up front. It’s not helping the people who really need it.

    “I am dreading winter and the bills. With Christmas and everything else, if I didn’t have my family’s support, it would be very difficult but I shouldn’t have to rely on them.”

    Thats the green for you, total incompetence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The retrofitting scheme is turning into a gigantic farce. Even in their own budget yesterday they only plan to retrofit 13,800 houses in 2023 to B2 rating. Remember the goal is 500k by 2030.

    The grants are wholly inadequate for the majority of the population and still involve far far too much red tape. The fact you have to stump up the full amount and then try to claim back the grant is shocking and won't motivate many to upgrade. Grand for the wealthy green voter who can afford this and for the welfare recipients who get it for free, but the working family in the middle can't afford this and gets virtually no support but just obstacles and red tape.

    The "one stop shops" are a disgrace with rampant price gouging. A rethink is needed but I doubt Eamon could be bothered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The thinking from the department of finance is Keynesian multiplier effect, in that view of the world saving for a rainy day is bad, the citizen must be ecouraged to spend ASAP to stimulate the economy and so doing boost employment and tax revenue. That's why the quality of work does not matter.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    If she borrowed to do it and say up up half then uses some of the saving to fun the loan, yes she's have to top up the payment too. Then she'd be in a warm comfortable house. We did it, we build an extension and did renovation too. Went from a G to a B3



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    This is how green dream increasingly looks like...




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The Department of Lethargy strikes again! Low cost loans for retrofitting which were announced in February 2022 and originally to be in place in the summer, are now kicked down the road until next year. Incredible that they have missed an entire year and winter.




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    And what did that cost as a % of the original market value of the house.

    I very recently sold a property on which there was a G rated house. Another interested buyer who pulled out, got an architect in to quote on renovation. While I am not party to the scale of their plans and what was involved, he said the estimate was €500,000, so I rather suspect a B3 retrofit on a G rated building won't be affordable to most.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    thats mad money why not just knock down and rebuild at that price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui



    Would you knock it down?

    It's in a SAC, as in the house itself, Because Irish public servants are a bunch of lazy and incompetent bleeps,. The bats had more rights than I. That means it would not be possible to get planning permission to knock and build, just for starters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Nice place alright just meant in general. I mean if you think about it your never going to get that investment back if you retrofit. It's not going to add the 500k onto the house your just saving a buyer doing it. It's really a scam. I mean fair enough if you put it in via materials marble stuff like that. All people are going to think of the rating is well it should be. It all falls down for me because you're basically taking out a loan for the house that your never going to recover via selling it. And if your not in the place for 40 years your never going to save that on the utilities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I see still flag waving despite that constant rhetoric being laughed out for what it is.

    Carbon taxes are nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul for 'green' policies which go to make everything more expensive. Only so long you can flog that donkey DaCor



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,750 ✭✭✭jj880


    Knock that and ye can say bye bye to those 3 chimneys. Split the place into 3 nice air tight units, 3 stoves with back boilers and get a turf bank somewhere nearby. Toasty. Fvck Eamo, his policies and his deluded followers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Well I see the Greens and their placating gimps in FF and FG haven't read past page 2 in The Three Little Pigs book.

    A levy on concrete at a time when we seriously need to built housing to meet the massive demand is really mind boggling.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More good news for home owners out today

    HOMES and other buildings will no longer need planning permission for solar panels, except where they are close to airports and some emergency facilities.

    <snip> - only 1 para peermitted

    Post edited by Beasty on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    And if you can't afford them then what ? planning permission was not really an issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    While welcome this wasn't really the issue. The affordability and the completely inadequate grants are making the move to solar unaffordable for most. Inadequate grant levels, too much red tape with the SEAI and price gouging by installers needs to be tackled urgently if the government are serious about having solar PV on houses across the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    This was also an issue for FG/FF/SF/SD/PBF.There was consensus in the Dail for this measure,would have happened without hte greens, like I said there is no need for the green party.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I have to lol though planning is not Mr Ryans strong suit or his remit to change. So no idea how it's being framed as a Green party thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Nothing to do with the greens as you say, a polish lady took a test case in Limerick and won, legislation naturally had to follow.Greens are a disaster for the country and the environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Would people please get off this grants and subsidies nonsense. That money comes from taxpayers, it's pointless and wasteful to pay the second most highly paid public sector in Europe, to take money from taxpayers and then to give some of it back to installers.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    At the time you were looking at 2500 a square meter of an extension and renovation. Job was quoted at 150K but cost about 180 after kirchen new windows..... Prices now have gone up but the government are pushing for one stop shop so she should easily be ably to get a quote.

    What I took from the article was she wanted 100% grant. That's not going to happen. Also there is nothing to say she has to do everything. If she insulated the attic. New windows and front & back door. Then added external insulation. You'd be looking at less say 10k for windows, 3 to 5k for doors, 20l to wrap 1k attic. You'd do a lot for less than 30K. If she could get a grant for 50% so 15K and has saving of 7.5k borrowed 7.5k she's have a warm house with much lower bills. She's probably get a B rating and get good fixed rate. I see people up and down our street doing one job then in a few years something else. I think she needs a dose of reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That's what I thought. No payback within a lifetime. Luckily my house isn't G rated, but if it was, those renovation costs exceed the market value of the house and land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    So spend €15k through borrowing (plus interest) and savings. Easily talking a 20 year plus timeframe to pay back (and that's assuming you'd save at least €750 each year on energy bills which is a high threshold). That's simply not attractive and it's of questionable financial sense for people on low-middle incomes. In 20 years you need to start looking at your doors and windows again and will have needed a heat pump in the meantime too. Enormous costs for decades long return.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We have a Green Party Minister that cannot even organise a loan scheme and there are greens who believe we should hock the State to borrow money to add unknown levels of renewable capacity at an unknown price to solve the problem of intermittent unreliable renewables.

    Does anybody in that party or their supporters have a clue about finance. They have all the appearance of responsibility as a bunch of 4 year olds let loose in a sweet shop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Maybe that's why Ryan is so sleepy suffering from sugar crashes. 😋



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It might even go some way to explaining some of his more inane utterances as well



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Great news out from Europe today, the EU is taking legal action against the govt of Ireland after a push from Friends of the Irish Environment. Specifically this is in relation to the protection and restoration of peatlands

    From the EU press release

    In addition, the EU has also taken action to force Ireland to make a move on single use plastics

    All in all, a good day for the environment in Ireland. With any luck these actions will lead to positive change and we'll start to see a massive uptick in the amount of bogs being rewetted

    The single-use plastics transposition is a no brainer. no idea why this is delayed



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