Solar for Beginners [ask your questions here]

fuse · 01-10-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690328#Comment_119690328

Ok, forgot about checking the unit. Luckily i can use the “this year” value as its only in a month! That value is 93kWh. So is that “savings” value only counting the energy used from Solar and not normal grid use?

that would mean only 5kWh came from grid? Sounds low, but not impossible.

slave1 · 01-10-2022 9:43pm

I don't have a battery so not sure exactly but in my case the savings are 100% from PV. Could it be that in your case the savings are from PV and battery?

fuse · 01-10-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690572#Comment_119690572

Hmm, from what I can see my eddi thinks any input from battery is just solar input so it groups them - there's no battery node in the myenergi app visualisation.

Also I'm still tweaking settings and trying things so I'm sure I've caught it at times pulling from the grid.

unkel · 01-10-2022 9:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690311#Comment_119690311

Once you're on a smart meter, every unit of solar PV production going through the Eddi will cost you money. So by definition it's never going to pay for itself. The best thing you can do financially once you have one installed, is disable diversion on it 😂

Unless of course the FIT which is now considerably higher than the cost of night rate electricity, will at some point be lower. It's possible of course, but I wouldn't make any financial decisions based on that scenario alone

Seriously, if you're smart, put it up on adverts, you should get most of your money back. One sold recently new and unused for €350

micks_address · 01-10-2022 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690637#Comment_119690637

The fit payment will be more than what it costs in gas to heat the cylinder of bit water?

redmagic68 · 01-10-2022 11:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690682#Comment_119690682

you can buy night rate electricity between 8-9c and sell on fit for 18c so what @unkel is saying is that the Eddi is costing you 9c for every unit it uses on top of the actual cost of the item. That is of course unless you go over the €200 fit payment then it’s probably break even on the unit cost with the marginal rate of tax being 50% say.

you need energy costs to go well beyond the fit rate before you’d see a return

micks_address · 01-10-2022 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690915#Comment_119690915

So on a smart meter I can likely buy energy at night for 2 hours at that rate... Paying a higher than standard rate during the day

unkel · 02-10-2022 12:26am

Are you on a smart meter already? If so, what are your FIT and low rates? If the FIT is higher than the low rate, you should not use the Eddi as it will lose you money for every single unit

yankinlk · 02-10-2022 12:30am

Not everyone has a tank that is large enough to cover a day's usage. If it needs to be filled more than once then an eddi is pretty handy.

Having said that when I start burning oil I won't need it... but in summer I like many others used to go without hot water. Eddi means I have constant hot water all year.

And yes if you are on day night... then u get the cake and eat it too.

AckwelFoley · 02-10-2022 12:40am

Any link for this 8cent night rate, because I can't seem to see it

Electric irelands "super" night rate between 2 and 4am is now 12 cent

con747 · 02-10-2022 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691013#Comment_119691013

The joy of free hot water in the summer! A welcome bonus if you don't have the right meter.

unkel · 02-10-2022 12:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691023#Comment_119691023

It ended a few weeks ago. Loads of people on here urged everyone to move to it while it lasted. Not just because it's a low rate, but more so because the rate is fixed for the year. They convinced me, I got in on time.

unkel · 02-10-2022 12:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691013#Comment_119691013

That's a good point. Need to do the sums though. How often would the cylinder really need to be heated by high day rate electricity? Why would you not use gas / oil instead? It's cheaper to burn fossil fuels in your home to heat your water than to use an Eddi.

Of course money isn't everything and the environment / climate change is or should be hugely important to all of our decisions, but unfortunately many people make decisions to invest in hardware based on some pub talk rules of thumb. Which are often incorrect.

slave1 · 02-10-2022 1:48am

I think we’re well established a water diverter is not financially viable but is worth it from a convenient perspective, our tank was completely empty of hot water after morning showers but needed again by evening (as is regularly the case) so for us it’s worth it for “on demand” hot water availability. Mind you, mine was a €380 self install less than 2 years ago, wouldn’t pay the prices flying around these days.

bullit_dodger · 02-10-2022 2:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691092#Comment_119691092

I think the best advice that anyone can give though is if it's a question of an extra 4 panels to your install or an Eddi......it's really no choice. Get the panels! If you can do both great (and you can use the water), but while it's super convenient panels are your friend.

yankinlk · 02-10-2022 8:22am

All Good points, for me it was convenience we never had plus I got it cheap.

@unkel I only use eddi day boosts when I have sun or battery to cover. But what are your thoughts on the demon electric shower? If u keep the showers short and if time was equal (hot electric showers can go forever, where the eddi filled tank could empty) is an electric shower a better option than an eddi?

I habe Eddi set to 2.5kw max versus my electric shower will burst to 8kw easily.

jkforde · 02-10-2022 8:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691043#Comment_119691043

"It's cheaper to burn fossil fuels in your home to heat your water than to use an Eddi."

over the Eddi's lifetime? with current (and future higher) prices and considering the yearly boiler servicing cost (approx. 100e pa)?

I for one am very happy with it, lucre ain't everything thankfully.

Jane98 · 02-10-2022 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691231#Comment_119691231

At the moment I use my gas to heat my water. Are you saying I should forget about the Eddi and stay heating my water with gas or immersion during night time hours?

footfall789 · 02-10-2022 10:44am

Hi ,

Thinking of installing a 20 400w solar panels and a 6kw inverter with a 6sq cable going 20 meters from Inverter to Fuse Box.

Was told by proposed installer that at Max supply from the Solar Panels I could only Power the Lights OR Electric Shower OR Electric Cooker , not all three together . If all three were running at the same time I would have to get the rest of the Power from the GRID and Even if I had 100 solar panels I would still have the same issue , I would only have enough to power Lights OR Electric Shower OR Electric Cooker.

I did not expect to power the whole house from the Solar panels , but I was hoping to at MAX supply from the solar panels I would have enough power to power more than one piece of electronics at the same time without needing to take power from the GRID.

Is this normal or am i missing something.

Regards, Footfall789

graememk · 02-10-2022 11:06am

The day night meters are likely to come into line to the smart tariffs in the next year or so... Its one way of making the smart tariffs cheaper....

But for this current year.

To compare an eddi vs FIT is complicated, No point comparing it to the 8c night as that was only on a D/N meter where the export isnt monitored.

But you can work out the "savings" you'd get if you were to replace night rate immersion with an eddi, Lets say 10c night as thats what the EV tariff is now. If the eddi costs you 500, you would need to put 5000kwh into your hot water tank to break even.

Having some sort of immersion diverter in the summer is really nice though, and if you have a decent sized array and battery, a immersion timer could be useful, Just time it to come on around mid day and give the tank a boost for the evening. I am doing it with a smart immersion switch.

Eddi vs Fit vs Smart meters... well look at these night time rates... (selected new customer so it wouldnt compare against others, I just wanted the rates anyway)

Night rates on smart tariffs arent great (and screw the night boost 2-3 hrs! pathetic)

There is some savings to have an eddi and not export, but it would be the difference between night rate and export.. Energia for example, 18 export, 26 night.. so about 8c

AckwelFoley · 02-10-2022 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691500#Comment_119691500

I'm not an expert and you may get a more qualified answer, but the limitations is likely to be with the amps the inverter can handle.

However, lights and cooker, or lights and shower, or lights and oven will be fine I'm sure, the issue is with the big 4 unit consumers in the house, oven Cooker kettle and shower.

yankinlk · 02-10-2022 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691500#Comment_119691500

Run away from that installer in case it's down to his dodgy build.

I have a smaller system and run all house power bar the electric shower when sun is shining. Base load of hose maybe 500w dishwasher can go to 2.5, washer and dryer maybe peak at 2kw it depends on the part of the cycle.

In general i am turning on things to try and use it on sunny days not turning things off!

Punchin A Keyboard · 02-10-2022 3:09pm

I would think it's more of the installer not explaining it very well. The inverter has a maximum limit it can supply which is determined by the model of the inverter itself and how much power the panels are producing at that time which can dramatically differ at different times of the year. Of course you will pay more for an inverter than can output more but the panels have to be there to support bigger inverters.

Irrespective of how much power is being produced, the ESB has limited the maximum output of an inverter on domestic single phase supply to 6KW in this country.

That figure is significantly less than you can draw from the grid through your consumer unit/main fuse.

The point is that with some research you should be able to get some more realistic expectations on the limitations of solar power in Ireland.

Gerry · 02-10-2022 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119689134#Comment_119689134

This is the bugbear I have.. where can I get an 8c night rate? maybe if Energia will replace my smart meter with day/night?

loopymum · 02-10-2022 3:50pm

I've seen a few posts asking about immersion times for using night rate on the thread & a couple of others.

Recently got an immersion after never having one in this house & it was just fitted with a fused spur.

After researching I purchased a 15amp Sonoff Powr2 Switch & connected it up myself. The Powr4 wasn't available when I bought. That's a 20amp which is probably better suited to the more continuous high load. It's only a single 3kw immersion.

It was extremely easy to fit. I practised on an old bit of electrical lead first. Obviously make sure you isolated the power& switched it off at the fuse.

Connect it up using the ewelink app,which in turn I have connected to alexa & Google.

Scheduled to heat only on nightrate.

It also has inching which I have set at 30 mins so if anyone turns it on it will turn off the immersion after 30 mins regardless which is great when you have 3 teens & 2 absent minded parents.

I also have the scheduling set to take this into account & give it 5 to 10 mins in between heating the immersion as its only a 15amp to avoid possible issues.

It also monitors consumption. We use an average of 555kw a week heating the water for 5 of us. In saying that we also use the gym & shower there when possible.

The teen girls are the worst culprits by far. Will shower till its stone cold.

Its a 250l tank & the immersion is half way.

Our previous tank burst & that had a heat pump attached which took great from the underfloor heating at 330w.

It was very slow & should have had an immersion to boost it really.

We had planned on fitting the mini heat pump as well as the immersion but we couldn't get the same again so when the tank came it looked quite narrow for it & we would have had to take it to a steel fabricator to make it for. Plumber reckoned at least 400 euro & I wasn't sure it was worth it so its sitting in the attic for the moment.

The new tank also has coils that are connected to the underfloor heating so it's bringing the bottom of the tank to about 23 degrees at this time of the year anyway

spose · 02-10-2022 4:02pm

The sums on an eddi is dependent on point in time and your set up. In my case I think I paid for mine in 3 years but that’s based on diy install, oil heating and no night rate. In the long run it likely will pay for itself especially if big family and high water users. Any Fit increases are unlikely to keep pace with rate increases, a lot of people will hit the tax cap so Fit rate will effectively be halved on the rest. I think guidance should be don’t get one if you have electric showers as your water usage wouldn’t be high enough to get the benefit.

bullit_dodger · 02-10-2022 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119692513#Comment_119692513

You could get it up to about 3-4 weeks ago - a good few of us jumped on that. Fixed for 12 months too! Since then (Oct 1st) the rates have gone up, but you can still get ~10cents via Energia.

Price Plans - Energia

I'm on the EV price plan with a day/night meter, and no.....I don't have an EV! (No mention of asking/proof required, just signed up online and that was that)

con747 · 02-10-2022 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691221#Comment_119691221

I have my Triton T90sr set to use just one element and the 2 Puredrive batteries I have can handle the power draw and the water is hot enough, so it doesn't draw from the grid.

unkel · 02-10-2022 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691221#Comment_119691221

Demon electric shower, LOL! Yes most of them use 9 or 10kW which seems huge, but if you use very little hot water it could make sense. If you're on your own or a couple using 5 minutes showers, it's fine. But you don't want to have a bunch of teenage daughters who like to have 30 minutes showers. Sometimes twice a day 😁

slave1 · 02-10-2022 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119691500#Comment_119691500

If you are in May and full sun you should be close to generating 6kW. This will be enough to cover your house load and the oven with no probs whatsoever unless you have some mad fancy oven. 6kW is a lot of energy at your disposal.

Manion · 02-10-2022 8:25pm

A question I should have checked earlier, but does the inverter need to be wired all the way back to the consumer unit? I had the impression once there was access to a circuit it would be fine.

I'm now wonder about the best placement of the inverter as the consumer unit is in the middle of the house.

Jonathan · 02-10-2022 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693593#Comment_119693593

Needs a dedicated circuit back to the CU.

redmagic68 · 02-10-2022 9:02pm

Is there a maximum distance the batteries can be away from the inverter. Does it lose efficiency the further away it is for example? Is say 3 or 4 meters ok?

AckwelFoley · 02-10-2022 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693593#Comment_119693593

My inverter is in the upstairs of the Man cave. Our CU is also in the middle of the house

Theres 10sq wire wire ran from the inverter to the CU. 25 meters of. It's tidy and convenient for where I want it, allows me lots of room for expansion of batteries or a second inverter (if i cant get a handle on this new found obsession)

DC999 · 02-10-2022 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119692513#Comment_119692513

Ship has sailed on that rate. I called Energia last week. New night one will be around 12.98c with price rise in early Oct. Day around 43c

unkel · 02-10-2022 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693731#Comment_119693731

Battery is relatively low voltage, so needs to be as close to the inverter as possible (the higher the voltage, the lower the losses). You see a max of 2 meters mentioned regularly in forums. Distance from panels to inverter and distance from inverter to consumer unit is far less important

redmagic68 · 03-10-2022 12:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693822#Comment_119693822

Thanks for that. Right next it is then.

graememk · 03-10-2022 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119692683#Comment_119692683

Ohh, I might grab one of them.. or 2 for a project I'm doing.

Sonoff I think can be easily reflashed to tasmota too I think (for the home assistant nerds like me)

A little bit of smart (or even dumb timers) can go a long way.

Have you just got to the point of not even thinking "is there enough hot water?"

Although the mrs still asks me "is there enough for a bath?" and I dont even look anymore,, its a yes.

cobham · 03-10-2022 11:39am

Our installation is stalled at moment, waiting on a part. We ordered Eddi as will have excess with 16 panel set up and thought nice to have it stored there rather than export. But having a wobble as am told we will lose the timer control for immersion that we presently have and use daily ( 30 mins or less is enough for two showers with sink element.) A dull day here today and maybe nothing would go to water heating. I am told there is a boost button on the Eddi but that is for an hour and not on timer? We have boost on gas boiler too. I never could decide if gas was more efficient for that small amount of water so had stuck with electric to waterheat. The timer with 15 minute slots that we have at the moment seems so uncomplicated especially with other people visiting the house. It is located in the hotpress and has override 'on/off' setting as well. Can the Eddi be added at a later date without too much trouble?

AckwelFoley · 03-10-2022 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695250#Comment_119695250

You can set timer on the eddie, from your phone or you can boost also for periods of you chosing. Works same as timer but easier to control as you can set it if you're away to com on for a specific tone or just boost it for 15min or half an hour.

graememk · 03-10-2022 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695250#Comment_119695250

Theres a timer on the eddi.

If you have the hub/app you can set a 7 day schedule too. Possibly from the UI of the eddi aswell

slave1 · 03-10-2022 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695250#Comment_119695250

As others have said there is a timer and it's very easy to use, you can control both elements independently and choose days of week to set time from either the App or face of the unit. The boost comment is also misleading, you can boost via the App or face of the EDDI unit and the default time is an hour but you can change to any time period e.g. half hour or three hours very easily.

cobham · 03-10-2022 2:52pm

All set for for final installation tomorrow... they were short of clamps for the battery. 🤞 Thanks all.

DC999 · 03-10-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696148#Comment_119696148

Sweet, nearly there. Can take a few days or more for it all to be setup. Sparks need to follow the roofers. I assumed it was all done in a single day and never asked them.

cobham · 03-10-2022 3:47pm

Oh the roofers were here 3 days and did a certain amount of wiring so await the arrival of the Electrician, he seems the prima donna of the team. I think there is a learning curve in this gang as the bossman is getting his team trained in! So inverter, battery and Eddi are all in their boxes still. Leap of faith to go with this lot as were able to offer me Sept date and assured all items in stock! We took note of distant dates and parts shortages with others.

Markbro1 · 03-10-2022 4:38pm

I've previously asked this but didn't get any reply so trying again! I've an install in November so trying to educate myself.

Is the solar install still grant compliant if a socket is wired to the EPS socket of the 6kw Solis inverter?

If so can this be a sub board with 4-5 circuits connected?

In a blackout does the EPS power from the panels and/or battery or just battery?

Thanks in advance.

idc · 03-10-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696393#Comment_119696393

Thats pretty normal, company I had the roofing team came out first and literally only did the panels on the roof (and i expect just the wiring in through the roof) but then a day or two later the electrician team took over and they did all the install of inverter/batteries/eddi etc.

idc · 03-10-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696581#Comment_119696581

Under current wiring rules my understanding is the panels are meant to be disconnected in a power cut (as this is how fireman remove power in a fire). This stops the live DC circuits on the roof but you could have a subboard installed to the EPS and you now have random live sockets/light circuits in the house which the firemen would not know which is live and which is not. Thats the part of this rule I don't get you just stop one source of electricity but leave another live coming from battery??

AckwelFoley · 03-10-2022 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696877#Comment_119696877

The live backup from the battery isn't wired into the house electrical system. It is separate. It's to be used as essentially an extension lead type supply from your inverter powered by your battery. Its one source of electricity that is at no point connected to any other wiring of the house which would be absolutely not permitted

As for wiring a sub board, I wouldn't see the point of doing this. The inverter will trip out if you overload the backup supply so you're not running cooker dishwasher etc and all you lights and tv. It's an emergency back up for some lights, charging cables, the TV etc

bullit_dodger · 03-10-2022 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696877#Comment_119696877

The inverter is powered (mostly) by AC. The "Fireman switch" kills the AC feed into the inverter, so all that's it's got left is the DC from the battery, which it will invert into AC for the EPS.

Your right, if someone creates a path out from the EPS to the sub board, and from there out to the Grid - that's part of the whole problem that the Fireman's switch is trying to prevent. (the other problem is that it wants to potentially avoid having a long run of DC from the panels to the inverter which a fireman may put an axe into)

If someone wires up a seperate swap over switch which takes power from the EPS to a subboard, or even the main fuseboard - then they should be doing "due diligence" to make sure that the house is isoalted from the grid.

To your question. Would it be grant compliant if there was a single/dual socket wired to the EPS? I would say yes (although I'm not SEAI). If you were getting "fancy" with swap overs and running cables back to the fuseboard.......I doubt it. Simply put the SEAI guy isn't going to start investigating how you have wired it, chasing cables, doing line continuity tests that you have it "right".

Solar for Beginners [ask your questions here]

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