Harry Dunn death

As a biker it's nice to know how little you value our lives

I'd say it's working just fine. Diplomatic immunity allows spys to operate in each others' countries so they know what each other are up to (and aren't up to to avoid unnecessary paranoia).

I'd spy's can be charged with crimes like this, then its easy to trump up charges and the whole spy apparatus collapses. These are spys from an allied country. Imagine what the Chinese or Russians or Americans would do of this became common practice. There would be no point to diplomatic immunity if they could be charged with this stuff, tragic as Harry's death was.

I’d imagine that the vast majority of drivers who end up killing another road user did not set out to cause anyone any harm but nonetheless a life is ended prematurely by your carelessness. A family is suffering endlessly, because of you.

A decent person will ultimately want to lessen the suffering of the family as much as they can by submitting themselves to the justice system, if only to relieve themselves of at least some of the horrendous guilt. Also, It’s England, not Indonesia or Iran. This woman was never going to flung in a hellhole of a stinking prison.

I could even understand the initial fleeing back to the US. She was shocked and traumatised. I can’t even imagine. But at some stage a decent person will want to return to face the music, if only to get it over with, to put it behind her. The absolute brass neck of this woman in the face of all the publicity to have kept up her refusal to take responsibility for her actions.

If you are Harry Dunn’s mother then you are being told that your child’s life was worth much much less then this woman’s right to avoid the consequences of her actions.

That makes her despicable imo and I hope that Harry Dunn’s smiling face is the last thing she sees before she goes to sleep at night for the rest of her life.

A snivelling coward.

So doing the right thing is “Hollywood nonsense”? You could knock down and kill a child and then run away and escape and just get on with your life? Forget all about it even when the parents of the child are begging you constantly to help them? I see. And you call that freedom? Maybe freedom would be facing the music, dealing with the consequences, asking the parents to forgive you, and then knowing that you did everything that you could have done to put things right. Then maybe you could be free. But thankfully there’s not a lot of people who can kill someone with their car, run away, shrug their shoulders and say “**** happens”.

It’s very interesting to me how you approach this whole scenario from the position, as the killer of the child, with no other interest besides the best outcome for you.

Im quite confident that the vast majority of normal people who had taken a child’s life in these tragic circumstances would be so traumatised so grief stricken and so guilty, that even if they had initially fled, they would ultimately and before very long, want to put things right. Would you not want to put your side of the story at least? Would you not want to face the parents and offer them your sorrow?!?

What good would be having your “freedom” when everywhere you go for the rest of your life you are that woman who killed that boy and ran away?

Its highly unlikely she was ever going to go to prison. A driving ban of some kind and a fine is most likely.

If that woman had stayed and faced the music like any person with a conscience would do, with a good lawyer she would probably have received a suspended sentence.

But she chose to flee. She deserves everything that's coming to her. Which unfortunately will probably not amount to much.

Yeah. I know that. What's that got to do with the post you quoted?

Yeah but I explained why I think immunity is working fine in this case - because it would set a precedent. Do you have any comment on that at all?

Just in all the obvious ways. If they do the right thing this time there will be greater expectation of them to do the right thing next time.

This is an issue between friendly nations. What happens when China accuses their diplomats (spys) of non political crimes? Financial crimes or sexual assaults or whatever? Should they also waive immunity in those cases? What does that do to morale in the diplomatic service? Why would they do it, just because it's the right thing to do?

It muddies the waters in totally unnecessary ways. That's one of the reasons why I think they won't do it.

What do you think will actually happen in this case and why?

People here seem to be getting hung up on preserving diplomatic immunity somehow..

That's mad, - that somehow a crime committed by a spy shouldn't be punished because they are a spy..

Is Harry Dunn's life worth less than the soccer mom/spy's comfort or freedom to just carry on?

Agree with those saying the family should just move on or hire a hit man, because they'll never get any modicum of justice up against the US.

Another case of might will be right unfortunately.

Where did I say that it's ok to drive on the wrong side of the road? Show me, I'll wait.

Bad language removed.

^^^^^^^^^^^

This. I'd agree with this 100%.

What she did was wrong, 100%, but given that she has an out (immunity or no chance she'll be extradited), she'll take it. And being honest, I think most people would do the same.

It's not a good act. Its an objectively bad act, but in this case it was legal to avoid any charge. Most people would not face an unconfirmed charge like whatever she would face (not confirmed as far as I know) if there's a perfectly legal way to not face the charge. Nobody has ever suggested she intended to harm Harry Dunn. The notion that most people would voluntarily go to the UK and potentially face a significant jail term when there's a perfect legal way to avoid it and continue to live her life at home with her family, is not realistic.

It's the kind of thing people would say on the Internet but wouldn't do in reality. She has a perfectly legal get out. Neither her government or the UK government is pressuring her to do it (and I suspect they would strongly oppose her doing it).

Maybe not even a suspended sentence, just a fine. It was only a motorcyclist she killed, after all

/s

The "sentence" for dangerous driving killing a friend of mine was a £500 fine.

The "I didn't mean it" defence should not be accepted as a defence. Adults need to accept the consequences of their actions.

We know what the charge is, it's causing death by dangerous driving.

What we don't know is if she'll be convicted or, if convicted, will there be a custodial sentence?

My feeling is that there won't be a custodial sentence as there aren't really any aggravating factors that I'm aware of. She didn't set out to kill anyone. She wasn't speeding, drinking, on the phone etc. I'm not sure if this would count as a mitigating factor but she had only been living in the UK for three weeks prior to the accident and had instinctively driven on the right hand side of the road.

To be honest, I'm surprised that Sacoolas is engaging with the trial. Correct me if I'm wrong but if she had diplomatic immunity, couldn't she have chosen to ignore the trial/charge? The US already refused an extradition request from the UK.

I feel very sorry for Harry Dunn's family but I think this was an accident and a custodial sentence is possibly unwarranted. I know that view might make me unpopular here but that's how I see it. It was an accident with tragic consequences, but an accident nonetheless.

She didn’t have diplomatic immunity, she said she did and then left the country.