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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I like the backhanded insult contained in that legal defence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,112 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I think most of the countries see this as an investment in their own long term defence, especially those countries in close proximity to Russia. It's been an absolute bargain for them - they supply weapons and the Ukrainians do the actual fighting and dying that hobbles and humbles the Russians. Same goes for the USA but for them it's also a warning to China.

    The USA have spent less than $100 billion so far (I'm not exactly sure of the number so am being conservative here - it could be less than $70B). That might sound like a lot of money but relative to the $2,313 Billion they ploughed into Afghanistan it's a fraction and it's arguably already been a bigger success for them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why oh why can't Russia just follow the template set by Poland and the Baltic countries? Open up their markets and their minds to the Western capitalist democracy system. Why do they have to be so paranoid and deluded about NATO intentions?


    All they have to do is copy/paste what the Baltic countries have done. They have so much potential but they are so paranoid that the West wants to do bad by them that they end up following actions that result in the West wanting to do bad by them.


    I know it's simplistic but I'd be all for inviting them into the EU as well. Countries can change. By co-operating and trading more closely maybe we could remove the tension and paranoia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭zv2


    Patrushev or someone like him gets elected. They declare Ukraine deNazified and chastened and retire their troops and blame Putin for any mishaps. I doubt they will risk the destruction further war will bring.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I can't see it in full due to a paywall, but Fortune seem to think Russia is facing imminent financial collapse before the year is out. https://fortune.com/2022/09/26/russian-economy-die-by-winter-says-economist-vladislav-inozemtsev-putin-mobilization/



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭briany


    They tried to Westernise in the 90s and it didn't go too well. I don't personally care what style of government Russia has - that's their sovereign decision - but they need to stay in their lane.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭Bigus


    They were well on the way to westernisation, until Putin got his hands on the levers and has been reversing everything since , ironically, it looks like the endemic corruption involved in a collective will ultimately bite him in the thoín. In fact , the level of corruption helps me sleep soundly knowing that his nukes are highly likely to be completely compromised at multiple multilevel steps along the way .



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭zv2


    As long as Russia is an autocracy things will be in danger of going off the rails.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Wes M.


    It's a good notion for sure, but I think Russia is still generations away from wanting the kind of soceity we aspire to - equality for all, regardless of gender, color, creed or sexuality. We might have the best template here in the West, but it doesn't follow that it can be easily mapped to another culture like Russia.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its all went downhill when Putin was refused NATO membership,thinking he didnt need to be a candidate like any other country first and could just join,because it was Russia.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    About that. Im eastern european, we have cold winters. It doesn't have to be -27. When you drink alcohol, you get warmer, because the heat leaves the body. Blood starts shifting towards central organs of your body, heart, lungs. You get frostbites, which can lead to amputation of feet.

    And that happens every year in my country, even if temperature stays around -10.

    Edit: russians have troubles with logistics, money on winter gear wasted, i think surrendering will increase drastically in winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,553 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Trading more closely - wasn't that tried with the gas pipelines? Look at where that ended up.

    Russia in it's current form seems incapable of being friendly with the west. Either it breaks up into smaller countries (which would be absolute carnage) or it spends decades in isolation doing some serious collective soul searching.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Remind us again how Neue Ostpolitik worked out for Germany ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭briany




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Maybe because his vids show support for the war by Russians? I suspect if his vids showed the same Russians saying no to war or asking questions the open window would be more likely to beckon.

    But not a shock really. Russia is an old style European imperial nation and culture. It's easy to forget that unlike the rest of Europe that part of the world didn't see much at all of the Renaissance, the Reformation, or the Enlightenment and remained a mostly agrarian society even after the Industrial Revolution. They came over a century late to that and only really got going after they fecked out their Czar and Communism came along.

    And all such modernities were resisted even when leaders like Peter the Great tried to bring them in*. In many ways, they're still essentially feudal with some trappings of modernity, especially in the hinterlands. A distant king in his capital with local lords to keep the chaos away. And part of that feudal social contract was the mercantile and peasant layers supported them and often expected them to do the faraway fighting for them. Empires are always deathly afraid of chaos and keep their people equally afraid. The 90's brought such chaos and those who lived through it were very grateful to putin for pushing that chaos away. It's very easy to sell the outside threat of "nazis" and "satanists" to such a population.

    In essence Russia and her culture are in many ways very different to how Europe and European cultural concepts operate. I have heard some commentators say Russia is more "Asian", but I personally don't agree. Yes the Mongols have left some influence, but I see them much more as above. Very European, but the Europe of the early Modern Period in outlook.




    *After Peter did a grand tour of Europe he came back to Russia with a zeal for modernity. This included big building projects in the European style, but also things like getting rid of beards and bringing in European styles of dress. There was serious pushback to this, even coming from the "divinely ordained" Czar. The church went totts ape over it as having a beard was considered a holy command and respect for God. So shaving was considered a sin. He had to bring in a beard tax and a native clothing tax to impose it. Of course this only worked in the cities for the most part and there was open revolt by some against it. Peter got his way in the end, but again only in his court and urban areas.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭rogber


    First of all you (correctly) say nobody knows what would happen if Putin got killed.

    Next sentence you tell us exactly what would happen if Putin got killed.

    Impressive show of consistency



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It's probably the only real defence that they can use. Basically calling Fox News viewers gobshites who believe nonsense that they should be skeptical about. It ties in to what the defence lawyer for one the Jan 6th twats said when he mentioned that these clowns were all "short bus" people. He essentially called them retarded.

    Unfortunately, all the "reasonable" people should be very worried about that, because with the viewership that Carlson commands and the support that Trump had, and continues to have, that means there's an awful lot of short bus people knocking around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭briany


    @Wibbs

    Maybe because his vids show support for the war by Russians? I suspect if his vids showed the same Russians saying no to war or asking questions the open window would be more likely to beckon.

    Many of his videos do show Russians voicing opposition to the war, often in the bigger cities. And here he is challenging the official Russian losses to Russians in the street.




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Though it's an amusing quip and the idea of a peace deal is certainly questionable, I would observe that whatever Musk has said about hypotheticals, he has been actively helping to kill Russians. The single most dangerous thing on a battlefield is communications, and Starlink was (if not still is) one of the backbones of the Ukrainian C2 system, provided freely and quickly.

    I wouldn't let his moment of perhaps naive idealism completely erase the fact that he's one of the reasons Ukraine is still in the war and doing well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,067 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    That would be a likely strategy, try and break through to the Sea of Azov and cut off supplies to the south. But sure the Russians can see that too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I agree with Musk insomuch as I think trying to retake Crimea would be a tougher fight and would really put Putin under pressure to do something big to try and prevent it. That said, I'm not saying that Ukraine shouldn't move into Crimea if the opportunity comes. They just need to soberly assess the risks facing them and the resources supporting them before they were to do so.



  • Posts: 13,688 Marie Strong Pocketful


    Take no notice of Wibbs. He falls for the Russian propaganda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Rawr


    On that note, feels like we’re overdue a photo-op trip by Liz Truss over there. She’s in enough hot water lately it’s probably tempting to pull a BoJo trick and try to drape herself in the conflict.

    She’ll make a balls of it, but I think she’ll probably try for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,841 ✭✭✭Polar101


    I wonder if they did a better job at "counting" the votes in the federation council. Yesterday in the Duma they cast 413, 412, 409 and 411 votes for the annexation of the four different regions, while there were only 408 representatives present.

    0 votes against, of course - true democracy at work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    That's very unfair to say. He takes a balanced approach to a complex topic.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,616 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    There might be some 0% loans issued for the equipment, but, as I've said before, this is why the equipment was built and what it exists for, neutering russia will be well worth the cost from a military perspective.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,458 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Some good points in it, basically claims the mobilization will mean the death of the economy due to lost workers and work output, plus even more sanctions. archive.ph ftw as always




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭Economics101


    I know that this thread is about Russia, but having a go a Bill Gates just because of Elon Musk's antics is ridiculous. If Gates stepped in to but Irish bonds when thigs were bad, that was helpful to Ireland, even if Gates made a profit. It wasn't a zero-sum game as far as Ireland was concerned.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    A Western/EU Marshall plan for Ukraine. And like the Marshall plan it made lots of lovely cash for people on both sides.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    the US is being deliberately vague on the use of Russians nukes in Ukraine

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



This discussion has been closed.
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