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Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Have you heard of the concept of supply and demand? By mid June 1 in 7 hotel rooms was taken by the government. I've no doubt it's 20% + today n more to come. But that's nothing new, eh?

    The Irish Times: State using 8,500 hotel rooms to house refugees – The Irish Times.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2022/06/13/state-using-8500-hotel-rooms-to-house-refugees/



  • Registered Users Posts: 28 ThoseSpikesAreSore


    Yes they are very expensive at that price I think especially if they are buying in bulk like, shouldn't that bring the price down a lot? One of the advantages of modular homes is that they cost a lot less to build

    I see a lot of the advantages of using them is in the English news at the moment because they are being lobbied and I think the government has agreed. It says the heating and energy savings a few times around 55% on current builds and there are other advantages mentioned.

    This is from building.co.uk

    Cost model: Modular construction

    "There is the potential for big cost savings using modular construction. Pure modular projects can be completed in half the time of traditional schemes once on site. Fewer packages need to be bought (usually ground works / substructure, cores, stairs, apartment modules, shell and core MEP works, builders' works, lifts and potentially balconies, roof finishes and the like, depending on the project).

    As a result, prelims are much lower - usually around 12% for a 160-apartment scheme. This combination of fewer packages and simpler design also means costs are easier to predict."



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    We are probably at 30,000 plus hotelbeds now. In a tiny country like Ireland that is massive numbers.

    It's already a very lucrative industry.


    https://www.thesun.ie/news/9227054/irish-government-ukrainian-refugees-crisis-students/



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    18% of our hotel bed capacity, if true? Unlikely though, or it'd nearly 100% of new arrivals all being put into hotels since that article was published, and we know that's not happening. Even at 18%, it's a lot, all right, but we can cope, especially as demand for hotel beds for tourists plummets over the winter months. Ukraine's armed forces seem to be doing really well, though, so long may that continue, and they can go home soon.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's supply and demand really, huge demand for modular houses accross Europe, I am not sure if any Irish companies are making modular houses, they might say they are, but they are really timber framed houses.

    When DCC went to tender a few years ago, theere was no interest from the big European suppliers. The ecomomies of scale weren't there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Over some of the Winter, tourist towns going to be heavily impacted. And what happens in Spring and Summer? There has to be a balance. Going to remain insanely expensive here for the foreseeable future.


    I also hope Ukraine prevails but realistically there will be no peace anytime soon. Things can easily get worse in the meantime. Nobody is talking to anybody, only war talk right now and doubling down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Tourists don't really go to Irish towns and villages in winter, do they? Cities, sure, but at in smaller numbers than summer. Agreed, there has to be a balance. Hotel rooms should be reserved for single parents or families with kids/the elderly/people with disabilities, in my opinion. But that requires the likes of Gormanstown to be on stream and increasing capacity, and the Red Cross to be rapidly speeding up its services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Eh? Of course lots of people still want mini breaks throughout the year and to visit family.

    Rates shot up already , 30%, and it isnt like they were cheap before (and they completely omit part of the reason why...funny that).



    I agree they need to stop handing out hotel rooms and free board and food and full social welfare to able bodied young people from Ukraine. They dont need that level of support, its wasting tax payers money and driving up our cost of living.


    Our young people dont get this level of support, nothing close to it, unless they go through a big ongoing drama about being homeless or disabled etc. Some of our stiudents get a small grant and then left to their own devices. Most get nothing and have to cover their entire living costs and find part time jobs to survive!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yeah... was the same when I was a student, too. And yet people still kept voting for the same parties, so nothing changed.

    Difference is the people getting the aid now have literally had their homes blown to bits, their friends and family raped, tortured and killed, so understandable they've fled and completely right for us to take them in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Some have and some haven't, from Kiev or western parts they could live there if they wanted to right now. Manty have moved back. Many visit for holidays.


    Some of them are also wealthy, some could choose to stay and help their country but dont , such as the nurses, teachers and doctors.


    We need to do means testing and reduce payments and treat them like the other asylum seekers, be fair to all.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    We're just talking in circles, now... Western Ukraine is already coping with 7,000,000 internally displaced people, which the "they can stay in Ukraine" advocates never seem to acknowledge.

    If your home has been blown to ****, it doesn't matter if you're wealthy or not, or driving a Beemer or a shitbucket. You are still entitled to refuge. I am not aware of any edict that says doctors, nurses or teachers are exempt from the right to refuge, and are obliged to serve if their country is attacked. Would seem kinda harsh to expect a teacher or medical practitioner to stay in a dangerzone, while entrusting their kids to strangers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I believe that 10% of hotel rooms are being used for Ukrainian refugees.

    It would be interesting to see how many are returning to Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Why do you always ask for sources but never provide your own eh?


    I already provided the source above.


    where is your reference?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I'm also not aware of any obligation to give them all room, board and up to 300 euro a week.

    The point stands, docs and nurses should be helping their fellow citizens over there, they have a lot of folks that need care.


    And they should all be means tested. Other countries are doing that.


    Germany is giving them WAY less. Is Ireland much richer than Germany? Last time I checked it wass not. Ireland is giving lone parents 300 euro per week. Germany is giving them 502 euro per month. They give more forchild benefit but Ireland is still giving them up to 2x compared to Germany.

    https://visitukraine.today/blog/905/germany-will-change-the-amount-of-payments-for-ukrainian-refugees-what-amount-to-expect


    The largest increase in benefits is expected for single adults or lone parents - they will receive an increase of €53, and the amount of benefits will increase to €502 (currently €449).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “Around 22,400 beds in hotels, B&Bs and hostels are currently occupied by people fleeing the war in  Ukraine.

    There are around 232,000 beds in tourist accommodation across the country according to Failte Ireland, meaning just 10pc is filled with refugees at present.” https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/22400-beds-in-hotels-and-hostels-currently-occupied-by-ukrainian-refugees-41861411.html

    Note:Tourist beds. Not hotels. So, the figures for hotels alone is smaller than 10%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    That's from the middle of July Mary. Out of date.

    We are now at well over 55,000 Ukranian refugees and thousands that were in student accommodation have been moved to hotels by now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Source?

    Mine was only 2 weeks before yours. So both must be out of date?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    It is up to you to backup your statements for once.

    Your info is way out of date.

    Already over 30,000 beds.

    Obviously many rooms have single beds or two beds at most. Do the sums.


    It is understood some accommodation contractors are seeking improved terms to sign up again. Official sources believe the current levels of people being accommodated in hotels are not sustainable, and are higher than in other European countries. But they are struggling to move people on to other forms of accommodation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles



    The point stands, docs and nurses should be helping their fellow citizens over there, they have a lot of folks that need care

    Nope, their primary obligation is to their children and themselves.

    Also the RuSSians are not just targeting hospitals but medical centres, including those that treat cancer patients.

    At the time of the interview, 906 hospitals had been damaged by the bombings, with 123 destroyed. These are not only cancer centres but medical institutions as a whole. 

    Now we know there is none so brave as internet heroes, but even taking that into account your point is horséshit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Don't want to interfere with said heroes rights to cheap hotels and holidays now, do you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe



    why don't you ring the Ukrainian embassy and ask? I dont know the exact figure but a significant amount have already gone back from all of the countries that border Ukraine and are living in Western Ukraine because their cities and towns further East are smashed or occupied by the enemy. The essential difference between the Ukes and the other type of refugee is that the Channel boat people don't want to go back to Africa or Arabia, except when it suits them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t think that the Ukrainian embassy would know. I don’t think anyone knows as there are no direct flights. It would be interesting to see, however.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    As all Ukrainian adults are entitled to social welfare, would it be correct to say that a 19 year old, for example, now enrolled in one of our colleges here is getting full dole plus free bed and board. Anyone know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 captain dildano


    Going back to the beginning of August 28,000 Ukrainian refugees were in hotels or serviced accomodation, I don't know the figures for non Ukrainian refugees housed in hotels. There don't seem to be any figures for the last few weeks, but given that more than 1000 Ukrainians a week are arriving and I don't know how many refugees of other origin are coming per week, I think we can safely say that we are into much higher numbers of hotel rooms.

    Whatever anyone's personal views on whether we should be taking in any more refugees from anywhere the reality is there's a major recession on the way. When people Irish and otherwise, who have been working here and paying contributions lose their jobs and find themselves being means tested up the wazoo and then look around them to see Ukrainians arriving here being handed full social welfare entitlements without means testing as well as free acomodation free travel medical cards and free food there is going to be an extreme backlash.

    When Irish people and other people who have worked here paying their taxes are laid off and struggling to pay rent/mortgage, feed themselves and their kids, heat their homes and keep the lights on their will be huge anger and resentment. At this point in time a person working in Ireland for minimum wage has less disposable income than an unemployed Ukrainian refugee. That's the reality. Anyone who can't or won't admit that this is a huge oncoming train wreck is either willfully naive or has skin in the game. I honestly don't believe that people with no overheads like food shelter and utility bills should be in full receipt of social welfare payments. It makes a mockery of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    At this point in time a person working in Ireland for minimum wage has less disposable income than an unemployed Ukrainian refugee

    There is 1000s of Ukrainians working.

    Also if you are bench marking ones happiness against literal refugees, then a personal reassessment should certainly be on the cards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I take it that would go for the Ukrainians too no one is allowed to be happy ? We all have to be miserable together. We should warn people then with a big sign don't come to Ireland no fun allowed. 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    I don't think you understood Boggles' statement. Don't measure your own happiness vs. refugees. That's not healthy.

    But, I do recognize your concerns about high hotel rates and lack of rooms, that'd impact happiness for sure. I mean, you're entitled, amiright?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28 ThoseSpikesAreSore


    Do you mean how many Ukrainians have gone back to Ukraine from Europe? If you do then it is almost 7 million and it is almost 9.6 million that have left Ukraine.

    There are almost 1.35 Russians that have left Russia mostly through Finnish and Estonian borders but they are crossing from Belarus and from Ukraine too.

    Ireland has taken in around 57,000 Ukraine refugees so far.



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