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Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Calliope Short Flower


    What they did in Poland was cut their benefits, then they either moved on to another country or moved back to Ukraine. People on here think that they are here because Ireland is a great country, its not, they are here mostly for the free benefits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Are you suggesting after all the vetting and communication with Ukraine the Embassy will have no idea where it's citizens went to ? Colour me shocked so that must mean no vetting and communication with the government in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭creeper1


    They're getting too much money - plain and simple. If they get all their board and meals paid for and need not worry about heating bills then that 300 euro a week they receive could be saved in its entirety. That's far better than people out working. Honestly the only essential that they would need is clothing to pay for out of that.


    The deal for unemployed Irish is 200 euro a week or so last time I checked. Also an Irish person has to buy food, heat their homes etc.


    Irish people getting a worse deal is effectively being treated as a second class citizen in your own country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If you are not happy, that has nothing to do with refugees.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @ThoseSpikesAreSore I mean from Ireland.

    @x1 Do they need a Visa to return to Ukraine? Otherwise, I don’t see how the Embassy would know?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Why don't you find out yourself Mary and show us the numbers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Yep look at Polish benefits.

    Then look at Ireland. It's what, 5 or 6 times more per week?

    Now realise your kids can learn English for free.

    Fairly obvious choice for some.


    https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/79804/

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/06/01/poland-begins-to-withdraw-special-benefits-for-ukrainian-refugees/

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,141 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Around 1.5m refugees in Poland - which is about 4% of the Polish population. If we had as many on a pro-rata basis that would be around 200,000. I don't think you can use Poland as a comparator given the completely disproportionate numbers they have taken in



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Jaysus, it's gone from 52,000 to 55,000 to 57,000 in the space of a couple of dozen posts! We'll be at 75,000 by next week at this rate!

    (The figure, as of 3rd October, is 54,771 Ukrainian refugees).



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    They are here mostly because their country has been invaded, their homes have been blown to bits, their loved ones have been raped, tortured and shot, missiles and rockets have hit all parts of the country, and 18% of it has been annexed by Russia.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Look at Polish benefits? Ok.

    Look at cost of living in Poland...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The figure of 54,771 is from the 25th of September. The article stating that is from the 3rd of October. Just over 1000 came during the week 18 to 25th of September. 10 days has past since then. If we were to say the average is dead on 1000 per week since then we’re at 56,199.57142857143 today :p



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    There’s no point in anyone here complaining, decision has been made that everyone from Ukraine will be given accommodation and full social welfare, it’s not going to be changed at this time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd preferer that my taxes support people in need that are fleeing a warzone than those that are too lazy to get off their hole and work.

    The Ukrainian war will hopefully be only temporary and if it does continue I'm sure the supports offered will be reviewed over time.

    Obviously social supports are required here but they should only provide for the basics until a person can get back on their feet, too many look at it now as a means to supporting an average lifestyle holidays included. That being said I do think that greater social supports are required here for the elderly and those with mental or physical disabilities at the moment they are being let down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28 ThoseSpikesAreSore


    That figure that you have quoted doesn't include more than a thousand that arrived here while those figures were being collated that week prior to September 25.

    More than 800 have arrived since then it said on the radio when they read out the figures so that would bring it close to 57 thousand like.

    If it was like Poland wouldn't there be more rotation going on? They took in 1.5 million but they never had that amount at one time for a long period using up so many resources at the same time. It looks like we are stacking them. In other countries they go back or go somewhere else, and they take in others we just keep taking them in without any leaving first.

    Post edited by ThoseSpikesAreSore on


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 captain dildano


    The Ukrainian ambassador to Ireland, speaking at the FF Ard Fheis, stated that there'd be another wave of Ukrainian refugees to Ireland to 'survive the winter', MM stated to her that he would 'do the possible and the impossible' for this next wave. My question would be why, when so many Ukrainian hotels are still open and advertising rooms, is the Ukrainian government not block booking those hotels for Ukrainians this winter? Surely it must be more practical in safer parts of the country?

    It has to be more practical for Ukrainians to be in hotels in their own country where they can still continue with education, with treating the sick and disabled and with rebuilding the country? Surely it's in the best interests of the Ukrainians to rebuild their country and lives as quickly as possible, especially given how successful the Ukrainian army has been lately?

    Can anyone clarify what the situation with homeless Irish people in hotels here is? As far as I recall RTE news in the past few years reported Irish families in hotels and B&B's had to be out of that accommodation during the day and it was down to them to source shelter with vouchers. I just wondered if Irish families will be allowed to stay in the hotels all day. Will they be allowed to stay in that accommodation indefinitely or will they be out on the streets as in the past? Will their meals be provided free? Will they receive free travel and medical cards? Just wondering as it would be deeply shameful if the homeless Irish families are walking the streets in the cold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The figure of 54,771

    That is PPSN numbers allocated since the start.

    While PPSN allocations give the total number of arrivals from Ukraine under the Temporary Protection Directive, it is not necessarily indicative of how many persons are currently residing in Ireland as some arrivals may have subsequently left

    By activity in the state, welfare, revenue etc, the exact figure is 48,888



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    This fallacy again. So there is no refugees in Poland? 🙄

    Poland did not cut their benefits, they cut the benefits of the hosts, the payment we only started issuing recently, Poland paid it immediately.

    Some of the special benefits introduced to support Ukrainian refugees – such as payments to households that host them and free use of public transport – are being withdrawn. The refugees are still, however, entitled to normal benefits available to other residents of Poland

    Free train travel is also no longer available starting from today. An exception is made for Ukrainian women, children and senior citizens, as well as men with a disability

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    My question would be why, when so many Ukrainian hotels are still open and advertising rooms, is the Ukrainian government not block booking those hotels for Ukrainians this winter?

    There's a reason the hotels in Ukraine are still open and advertising rooms.

    Surely it must be more practical in safer parts of the country?

    Define "safer parts of the country". The main conflict zone - the "front" - is (now) in the south and east, but practically every part of Ukraine has been hit with missiles and rockets, including central and western villages, towns and cities, and certainly including civilian targets. (This would be why Ukrainian hotels can still advertise empty rooms). 7,000,000 Ukrainians are already internally displaced.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That’s the number of PPS numbers issued. Anyone know of any figures for those returning to Ukraine? My pal Google isn’t showing any results. The only one I can find claims that 10 million fled to the EU, with 4 million returning home, but no specifics per country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Why are you only wondering about this now? 🤔

    Hotels being used as emergency accommodation has been happening for years, even when we were bulldozing housing estates.

    They tried to transition to "family hubs" which were "hated".

    No idea what it has got to do with Refugees though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    Who's measuring? Facts are facts. As literally everyone on this thread has concurred with, yes we should help the refugees. Is the quantity of help they are receiving idiotic? Yes it is. Is it necessary to provide that level of support? No, it's not. Is it time for a cap on numbers? Yes well past that time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Out of interest, where would you deport them to and what mechanism would you use?



  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    I have said nothing about deporting people. We cannot continue to accept an uncapped number of people. This war is going to drag on. I don't think the 3 year directive is going to withstand it.

    What happens when the directive ends? Will we dump the unlimited number of refugees at the side of the road?

    Common sense needs to prevail. We have taken a large number per capita compared with other countries. We cannot provide refuge to all. The open invitation is ludicrous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If you talking about a cap, you are talking about deportation, you can't have one without the other. You are also talking about suspending other international laws.

    So the question is pertinent and I will ask it again.

    Where would you deport them to and what mechanism would you use?



  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    False. Cap means stopping any new arrivals from entering. I.E a limit in numbers.

    Deportation is totally different subject.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    so, a cap of a few million then to avoid deportation?


    No? How about, I dunno, whatever the perceived number is today, plus 100. What do you do, for the 101st that shows up and claims asylum?

    Hint: it begins, with a D....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    Sure, the cost of living in Poland is much lower and their social welfare reflects this. Likewise Ireland - high social welfare reflects the cost of living there.

    However, if a Ukrainian refugee is living here and gets free accommodation, food, no internet/tv provider/heating/electricity bills need to be paid, free healthcare, college grants, free school books, etc. it’s fair to say the cost of living affects them very minimally. People with nearly everything paid for them don’t need to be on the highest social welfare in Europe.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Huh? So they live in the ports? Like a less funny version of The Terminal.

    You haven't really thought this through have you, but to be fair others screaming CAP into the sky haven't either.



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