Is it time to join Nato

History of illegal wars

Have the Russians reduce the size of their embassy in Dublin to a similar level to ours in Moscow at the very least so it cannot be as big of a spy center as it is especially given we currently have no creditable intelligence service to deal with the threat. Although no idea why your bringing the embassy up with me given I never mentioned it.

Invasion of Afghanistan, including triggering of nato article 5.

I don't actually have the power to reduce the size of the Russian embassy.

But I say let them stick on another floor and a patio/smoking area. Makes little difference. They're largely incapable.

Having seen their drunken performance in their neighbors back yard, and considering the geography (and UK territorial waters) I think we're quite safe from any sort of invasion.

I did .

Could you not spell calculator?

Do you want us to join nato so that we can have lots of cool military hardware that goes pew pew pew nyeeer ack ack ack ack pow?

Or is there some other reason?

"The UN Charter is a treaty ratified by the United States and thus part of US law. Under the charter, a country can use armed force against another country only in self-defense or when the Security Council approves. Neither of those conditions was met before the United States invaded Afghanistan. "

• — Marjorie Cohn, professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, president of the National Lawyers Guild

Print that out and roll it up.

You sure keep up with your obsession about the Americans. I have not suggested joining NATO and or teaming up militarily with the Americans. But you know that and nonetheless continue with your diatribe about the Americans. I suspect your being disingenuous when you mention Ireland's participation in Nordic battlegroup's which we have done on a periodic basis. The current battlegroup that Ireland will play a role in will have a whopping 8-10 Irish personal. Ireland does indeed participate in the civilian csdp missions and is to be lauded for that. However that changes not a jot the fact that when it comes to the defense and security of the collective of the EU and the free open and democratic society within which we live we do not play our part, we simply do not have a creditable defense and security capability and are currently free loading in that regard within the EU.

What part of "as per the thread title - not you" did you not understand.

There is no freeloading. If history and geography have conspired for Ireland to be largely uninvolved and marginal thats just good fortune for once. The positive to all the negatives of being largely isolated.

We don't have a credible defense, but then again the only threat on the continent seemingly doesn't have much of a credible attack (conventional).

Defense is mostly a responsibility of individual nations anyway. The up-side of being a Poland or a Germany is that you're on the mainland, this has huge economic and cultural advantages. The down side is you have to keep an eye on Russia and fund your military accordingly.

The down side of being a marginal island is it screws your economy, but the up side is that you don't have the responsibility of keeping much of an eye on Russia.

If we're guilty of not fulfilling some kind of duty to the continent then equally we must also deserve some kind of compensation for being out here alone and cut off.

I think neither is the case. Any individual nation will contribute the appropriate minimum. Our net contribution and our csdp status, is around about sufficient in this case. Although yes, I'd approve of some additional funding to the DF.

Who cares.

Call it questionable then.

Like Iraq, and the wmds, or lack thereof. Questionable.

The point (before the nerding-out) was who really wants to tie their destiny to the US which is always at war or meddling in some coup, when not electing some mad yoke.

Not me. And I don't think nato's basement fanboiz in Ireland are ever going to sell the idea to the public. The reasoning is always too idiotic, everyone can see they just want some fancy toys. And now that everyone can see that Russia is a shambles its gonna be a hard sell.

So no, sorry. No sale. No nato for you. 😁

I understood your posts fine. The rantings, more difficult to understand. But what is crystal clear is that you have a real obsession with the Americans who seem to be the root cause of conflicts in your eyes. I have never said we should join NATO so you bringing that and or the Americans into replies with me is completely superfluous and more about your obsession with the Americans.

Yes Ireland is freeloading it when it comes to the defense and security of our part of the collective that we benefit so greatly from the EU. We do not have a creditable and capable defense and security force and as such need at times other countries to step in. That is free loading. We need to step up and develop a capable defense and security force and play our part in the security and defense of the collective that is the EU and the free open and democratic society we live in by doing such. Our role being a small nation will be small but that is part of the beauty of the EU when at its best its collective strength.

@85603

I dont know exactly how much you suppose we owe but rest assured nobody who can do anything to influence our defense spend is reading your posts, so all your frEEloAdERs!!1 are just farts in the wind. Good luck with that.

I read this thread off and and on, but I judge you have it a bit backwards with that crack about "farts in the wind".

I think the politicians in power don't need to be influenced by likes of posters here (or others of joe public) and realise it has to be done (start spending some money on all aspects of defence - not necessarily join NATO!).

The Irish public though is imo still asleep, and may turn on anyone who tries to wake them up. They could get angry with these politicians if/when they see some money going to the Defence forces, rather than a bypass for BallyGoBackwards or a EUR10 increase on the pension or the dole!

And then you have populists (SF) and the likes of PeoplePutin Before Profit party eternal student politicians and "USA is the root of all evil" gobshites who will indulge them in this and tell them to nod off again, all is safe, all is well.