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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You speak total sense- and if I were commuting 500KM a week to work (without taking any other travel into consideration) as I was over 2 years ago, I would have- but with lockdown and now WFH, milage is an awful lot less per week overall, not just commuting.

    Crunching the numbers has been on my mind 24/7 over the last number of months TBH- looking at what my average milage is, looking at ICE cars, secondhand that I'd consider buying Vs New EV's that Id consider buying. ICE still seems to work out cheaper overall, taking a 5 year view of depreciation, servicing and running costs - EV's still have a a big premium and a long lead in period with uncertainty over final price charged. I see people driving around in 2022 ICE vehicles and thinking, whilst EV are great, we've a long way to go before my secondhand diesel will be worth nothing.

    I'll keep an open mind over coming weeks and months- supply has obviously affected EV pricing and up to 1 year delay on a new EV is just not for me as I need to change in next 6 months max I'd say.

    Anyway just thinking out loud - don't want to derail this thread in anyway as it's "random" but hope it helps others thinking the same way i am. Maybe I should just bite the EV bullet but the ones i want are just too expensive right now I think compared to ICE.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah- it might be ultimately my route into EV- secondhand ICE cars are over-inflated prices right now- same with secondhand EVs though- so was thinking going new EV but as I said earlier, the boat has sailed on that for a few years until prices and choice stabilise- probably best thing i can do now is finally decide what money I want to throw at "transport" on an annual basis and then decide what my options are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    From 37,995 at launch to 39,995 now.

    Or was it cheaper at launch?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    The World's First Heat Pump/Air Conditioning Unit And Electric Vehicle Charger in one



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    A solution looking for a problem.

    Possibly only suited for new builds... Then you would have plenty of capacity(electrically) for a evse and a heatpump...

    A 10kw heatpump only really has a 3kwish electrical load. So no swapping out the heatpump and magically getting 7kw evse.

    To get the grant now it has to have load balancing anyway afaik.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Some EVs are in stock to drive away today. Particularly Teslas but you may be limited to certain colours or models. Others cars availability can vary by dealer so some dealers may have stock. I agree it does not make sense to buy a new EV if you have done the sums and it costs more than ICE overall. There are still.big downsides to EV ownership such as queues at peak times at public chargers and the risk of forgetting to charge at home and having to charge for 30+ minutes at public charging on the way to work which has happened to me more than once.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd say the main issue there is that the heat pump tends to be shoved around the back of the house, away from where you'd put a charger. Bit of a niche market to begin with

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “The insurer is now offering Erection All Risks (EAR) and Operational All Risks (OAR) cover for EV chargers on a standalone basis. The product is aimed at customers including contractors, car park operators, local authorities, asset managers and forecourt operators, with cover applicable for everything from a single charger to an entire network.”


    I’ll leave it at that…



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    This is like special EV car insurance. There is no real difference in ICE Vs EV car insurance, same with parking meter installer versus EV charger installer insurance. Sure the risks might be different but it's just a public liability insurance product, same as most contractors insurance that has a cost based on the risks of a claim.

    It might make it a bit easier to get a quote and easier to settle a claim as most scenarios are already listed but nothing special.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Mattie500


    Very happy with an ioniq electric with charging at home and at work. We use it a lot more than than the ICE that we thought would still be the main family car. We installed a Zappi home charger and will look at installing Solar in the near future.

    One thing we had to negotiate was the “service cost” being asked for by the garage…. €250 for inspection, replace pollen filter, and replace brake fluid. OEM pollen filter @75, brake fluid @75 and 100 for the inspection (to get the book stamped). Obviously I pushed back on all of this but this is an example of what may be going on.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You could well be right - I might be now confusing either a higher spec model or/and bigger battery versions now available - even so 2k more is a lot more than I would have considered budget wise -ya got to shout stop at some number or we’d all be driving lambos 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭bricky06


    I wonder how long it will take my brain to recallibrate for M3 to mean a Tesla



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭wassie


    This might help. Tune in from 3:30



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Looks like the EU parliament is getting the finger out

    They want charging stations every 60km along all major routes. Pricing should be displayed on the charger and payment should be "simple to use" which could be interpreted as requiring card payment facilities

    They also want an acceleration of the current target to 2028 instead of 2031

    With a bit of luck our glorious leaders will get booted into action

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    With a bit of luck our glorious leaders will get booted into action

    No, we'll miss the targets and then pay a few million in penalties every year until we do eventually meet the targets (of 5 years previous)), then we'll start paying new penalties for missing the newer targets....



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Nah, we'll get an exemption because we're an island or some BS like that

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    While I think 60km is great I would prefer hubs every 100km on major roads. Later they could add more sites in between.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It's a bit buried in the article but they talk about EV charging "pools" which sounds a bit like a hub.

    The earlier proposal from the EU commission mentioned a minimum charging power of 300kW, which is a bit low if you're thinking about 10 years of development. But if you apply current logic that seems to cover 2 chargers (unless you're Ionity)

    Tbh 60km seems like enough, considering that's the distance between Lusk and Castlebellingham services on the M1. You could easily pull into one with 10% remaining and if there's a massive queue or the chargers are busted them having to travel 100km might not befeasible

    So the EU parliament seems to favour lots of smaller hubs than a few big ones. I know scaling of resources favours big hubs, but if you're looking from a minimum service point of view then you'd want hubs a short distance apart.

    You then let market forces decide which of those locations are turned into big hubs

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    How would that work though. Will ecars or equivalent take a mini digger and knock a hole in fence every 60km along all the main routes and set up 2 chargers and then wait to see if any private providers can see themselves making a killing out of developing these sites? Or will ecars simply throw a few chargers into existing petrol stations along main routes? Always have to admire the EP for their precise plans that really are difficult to implement in the real world.

    Interestimg to see how this will actually unfold



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    This has already been done, the TII motorway services sites are basically fulfilling the requirement of a service station every 50-60km on main routes


    The government (via TII) franchises these sites out, I think Applegreen currently has most of them. So basically they'd change the terms of the franchise agreement to include a minimum number of EV charging.

    As long as the terms of whatever EU law is met regarding ease of access, then the government doesn't care who actually provides the chargers

    Hopefully the service station owners get ahead of the game and provide their own chargers, looks like Applegreen is moving ahead with this, although I'm not sure any of the sites they're currently installing are TII sites

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    This is what was previously recommended by the European Commission:


    Member States shall ensure a minimum coverage of publicly accessible recharging points dedicated to light-duty vehicles on the road network in their territory. To that end, Member States shall ensure that:

    (a) along the TEN-T core network, publicly accessible recharging pools dedicated to light-duty vehicles and meeting the following requirements are deployed in each direction of travel with a maximum distance of 60 km in-between them: (i) by 31 December 2025, each recharging pool shall offer a power output of at least 300 kW and include at least one recharging station with an individual power output of at least 150 kW; (ii) by 31 December 2030, each recharging pool shall offer a power output of at least 600 kW and include at least two recharging stations with an individual power output of at least 150 kW;

    (b) along the TEN-T comprehensive network, publicly accessible recharging pools dedicated to light-duty vehicles and meeting the following requirements are deployed in each direction of travel with a maximum distance of 60 km in between them: (i) by 31 December 2030, each recharging pool shall offer a power output of at least 300 kW and include at least one recharging station with an individual power output of at least 150 kW; (ii) by 31 December 2035, each recharging pool shall offer a power output of at least 600 kW and include at least two recharging stations with an individual power output of at least 150 kW. 


    The European Parliament document seems to be focused on truck/bus requirements being brought forward and accessibility and signage requirements for charging hubs. Given the way the press release is worded, they may mandate pay by card being an option and that there be no access fees or overstay fees. I'd also like to see how they define "affordable". Tesla and Ionity hubs don't count either as they're not accessible to all vehicle brands, although they may if they're co-located with a ChaDeMo charger.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Tesla and Ionity hubs don't count either as they're not accessible to all vehicle brands, although they may if they're co-located with a ChaDeMo charger.

    The current commission proposal attempts to stop operators getting out of obligations by defining publicly accessible as below, in the original Alternative Fuels Directive some countries classed publicly accessible as open to 2 or more separate automotive brands. Ionity has always been classed as publicly accessible the provision of a CHAdeMO charger has nothing to do with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Paywall 😬

    I'm gonna go with maybe, as I recall the advantage of lithium sulphur is that it doesn't need as much or any rare earth metals

    The problem with these kind of breakthroughs is that it take a while to turn into a marketable product. And in the meantime other technology is advancing which might render this obsolete

    Still, the main idea is still true, that battery development is ongoing and EVs are getting better every day

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭wassie


    My take is that it isnt a breakthrough as such, but rather a generational development of existing technology.

    The real break through will be when solid state batteries, such as that being developed by ProLogium, can be produced economically at scale.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    The clickbaits pop up every few weeks across SM, the next breakthrough!

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “But what’s really thrilling is that a fleet of electric Hyundai IONIQ 5 cars will be powering the whole set-up, harnessing electricity through their vehicle-to-load (V2L) feature, which powers other appliances through adaptors.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Sound like a gimmick where after the demo period the cars will be removed. No mention of how or where cars will be charged. Does the car sit there or can you drive away in it? I don't think the car can charge and provide power without unplugging adapter and plugging in a different cable. It seems a waste of a whole car if it can't charge at accomodation and if it can't be driven.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    All these battery " breakthroughs " are typically companies and universities looking for funding. Many of these batteries may be unsuitable for use in cars and for example may be more suited to homes . There has been constant improvement and even if a breakthrough happens it won't make existing EVs obsolete nor make them unviable.

    I tend to ignore them and I assume battery prices will go down and capacity improve and hopefully the rarer materials can be used less and less.

    Post edited by zg3409 on


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