Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

I have provided the facts about vaccine effectiveness in the period when vaccine mandates were rolled out. It wasn't just about preventing transmission, but about reducing the risk of hospital cases from people who did get it. And also as noted, the vaccines significantly reduced your chances of getting infected and of infecting others. Compared with those vaccinated, you were twice as likely to get infected if unvaccinated up to 6 months from vaccination. Earlier the difference is even greater.

Unable to respond to the facts, you just shout "Nonsense based on hysteria". That isn't a counter argument. It is a rant. If you disagree with the vaccine mandates that is one thing, but to call it nonsense based on hysteria is without merit or foundation.

The comparison with flu is surely about the strain covid places on hospital services.

So you really going to double down on the #JustTheFluBro?

People had a choice to get vaccinated. You don't have a choice to be elderly.

Within bounds, people should be able to make their own choices about risks. But when you have numbers of people making choices that put strain on hospital services, and those people expect to be treated, it is entirely legitimate for government to step in. Another factor is that these are places of work.

I don't know why you are getting so aerated in your post.

It was not a question of just keeping elderly or vulnerable safe but also to try to get through the antivax agenda which tried to convince people that they did not need a vaccine to stay safe. The levels of unvaccinated ending up in hospital and during Alpha and Delta, dying, pretty much showed that the primary vaccination course was and still is necessary.

This is not hysteria. This is borne out by data from hospitalisations and vaccinations all over the world, that have been shared here on this thread over the timeline.

People dissecting old reports now are just trying to rewrite the story.

Everything has changed since vaccination, and that includes the virus which is still mutating to evade treatments.

There are people who refuse to acknowledge that we as a country did not do badly at all through the pandemic.

A lot of people were kept safe and in employment and others were paid to stay home.

Yes some businesses eventually went to the wall. And people died, in nursing homes and in hospital alone.

Unfortunately this happened everywhere around the world as in a major world event, a pandemic? In some countries it was many multiples worse and they are still doing worse economically

Our hospitals in major cities were swamped with the worst cases but more use could have been made of the private sector and less acute hospitals to treat other conditions I do agree.

Nightclubs open or not open.. should have just bit the bullet, one way or the other.

Outdoor events should have been allowed once people were generally vaccinated.

I did not agree with vaccine passports keeping people out of restaurants and clubs but also not right to say to vulnerable people that they should spend all pandemic shielding because of someone else's choice for themselves.

How is that fair?

Most other people would be fine if they picked an infection up, the main ones not would be immunocompromised, elderly and unvaccinated, so there was no hysteria, just hyped up by those who did not want to accept that reality.

Also on the post about excess deaths related to cardiac disease and illness, covid infection has been shown to raise risks by multiples in the first months post infection and this risk reduces but persists for 1 year post infection, and is found to be higher than any other viral infection, including flu.

This could be another reason in a long line of reasons, why that excess death rate is slow to normalise.

That's an excellent summary. I have largely given up on this debate because there are so many after the event attempts to criticise decisions made in real time. For example, people still talk about delayed diagnoses. These were caused by Covid and nothing else. If Covid had been allowed run riot, they would have been delayed for much longer as the hospital system would have been in chaos. Restrictions were necessary and it was important to persuade, if not coerce, people to get vaccinated. For me the debate is over. There were failures but by and large we did well.

You are showing desperation to put it down to some other cause than the heatwave, and the increase of cardiac incidence , which you have highlighted yourself , which maybe post Covid infection...

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220929/Study-offers-insights-into-how-COVID-19-damages-the-heart.aspx

Give us your reason(s) why you think it is still high instead of ignoring or trashing posts giving some explanation .

At the same time its fair to say that Omicron changed everything. I was double vaccinated and 1 day away from getting the 1st booster and I caught Covid-Omicron just before Xmas. I was lucky and got it very mild. So did the rest of the family. I am pretty sure the earlier strains would have floored me. Omicron was the game changer and continues to be. It drastically reduced the risk of hospitalisation. And most of the population got it. It is why people under 60 are not turning up for the booster.

I totally agree with you . Same here .

But most of the over 65s should have had their boosters by then or since .

It's up to everyone themselves at this stage but while that immunity will protect for a while it may not protect against whatever dose is circulating over this winter especially if they have risks or underlying conditions .

For example ..I know two 80 year olds who caught it recently . One fit and well controlled blood pressure, cardiac condition , the other fit except high blood pressure and kidney disease. Both fully vaccinated but only one boosted twice .

One died of cardiac complications 6 weeks post infection and seemingly recovered .RIP . The other is a bit tired but getting back to normal . The second was boosted twice .

Sorry to be graphic .

For those on here wondering why we're still talking Covid, it's because we're still getting the data e.g. those official CSO figures from August 2022 showed:

• 91% of Covid deaths occurred in persons aged 65+ i.e. they were old
• 80% of Covid deaths included 3+ medical conditions listed on the death cert i.e. they were old and already sick (unless you believe that Covid prompted the onset of those other conditions (e.g. pneumonia) as some of those fact-checking journos implied :-)

Also, there will never be an inquiry or anyone held to account. NEVER EVER NEVER. All you can do is continue to ask our GPs and doctors how they feel about the Covid response so that they stand up and are counted next time around!

And what were the stats for ICU admissions and hospitalisations? They all skewed younger than the figures presented. They were the ones who survived, because there was hospital capacity there to treat them.

People over 65 have decades of life ahead of them.

There's a lot old and sick people in this country. And people who care about them. Who don't just want to write them off as you do.

Covid caused pneumonia. This is an established fact and how it was first identified due to surge of pneumonia cases. TO suggest covid does not cause pneumonia is false, and you innuendo about fact checking journalists shows your true colours.

Nobody?

This is an article in The Guardian. There are similar articles on the BBC website linked on the thread.

The author of chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh.

Are you trying to say that one 80 year old died because they only had 3 vaccines and the person with 4 didn't? Where is your proof that the 4th vaccine saved their life?

Both people were or are near the end of their life expectancy, I think that's the bigger factor here, particularly when the boosters are for old strains of Covid.