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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Not a hope of reducing our usage - if anything it will increase sharply in coming years.

    Elsewhere the government are targetting 30,000 homes a year for the next 2-3 years minimum (another target they are unlikely to come within an asses roar of achieving but let's run with it anyway).


    Govt targets = 90,000 homes is what we needed.

    That's 90,000 homes with a typical estimated annual consumption according to the CRU of 4,200kWh of electricity.

    These homes will all be A rated so will have heatpumps - another 3,000kWh of electrical consumption a year.

    Let's assume 10% of these homes have an EV - if they do the average annual mileage (17,000KM) in an average efficiency EV (15kWh/100KM) then that's another 2,500kWh of electricity.

    All in, that's another 648GWh of annual electrical baseload consumption we need to account for just the homes, plus another 23GWh for the 10% of those homes with an EV (9,000 EVs). That's just shy of 0.7TWh of extra energy needed just to solve our housing crisis.

    Before any of the 1mn existing ICE-EVs are transitioned or 600k heatpump retrofits are factored in or additional datacentres are brought online.

    Like you say - not a hope.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,358 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    So as I said weeks ago the **** is hitting the fan with regards heat pumps installed in council houses with top up as you go electrical metres.


    Heat pumps basically need to be on all the time to operate properly.


    If someone doesn’t top up the metre then the heat pump won’t work.


    Another idiotic rushed initiative from our great genius Eamon Ryan.

    Post edited by Jinglejangle69 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    William Reville, the well known anti-science, anti-climate change, pro turf burning, pro baby seal killing Professor (for the "Greens", this is sarcasm) has this published today in the Irish Times -


    We need to take the nuclear option

    There is pretty much universal agreement in mainline science that global warming poses a deadly threat to humanity and that we must drastically and quickly reduce and then stop burning fossil fuel. The two big non-climate-warming power generation alternatives to burning fossil fuel to release the energy needed to run our societies are wind and solar.

    But we also know that the sum of wind plus solar power still leaves us with a shortfall of energy, because both wind strength and solar intensity are erratic. This shortfall is currently met by burning fossil fuels. We hope technological developments will allow us to store excess energy generated when strong winds blow and sunlight is intense, to be used at times when winds fail and/or sunlight is dim.

    But we already have access to stable, safe power that doesn’t rely on burning fossil fuel – nuclear power.

    This should be good news but, despite our enthusiasm for producing doomsday predictions about climate change, little enthusiasm is shown for recruiting nuclear power to supplement wind and solar power to eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels.

    Incidentally, Ireland has a close connection with nuclear power through the work of Irish scientist Ernest Walton (1903-1995). Walton, with John Cockroft, split the nucleus of an atom (nuclear fission) at Cambridge University in 1932. Nuclear fission is the basis for nuclear power. Walton and Cockroft were jointly awarded the Nobel Prize in physics in 1951. Until 2015, when Donegal-born William Campbell was awarded the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine, Walton was Ireland’s only Nobel prizewinner in science.

    The nuclear power industry traditionally built large nuclear reactors, each big enough to supply the electrical requirements of a city of several hundred thousand inhabitants. Each such reactor is specifically designed for its particular role, costs billions of euro, and takes many years to build, with progress bedevilled by objections and delays.

    Many environmentalists highlight dangers posed by the long-lived radioactive waste produced by nuclear power. But this danger is often greatly exaggerated as I explained in a previous column. Also, the general public fears nuclear power despite the fact that the nuclear industry has the best safety record of all means of generating electricity. All these factors conspire to intimidate politicians into endlessly postponing the decision to expand nuclear power.

    Recent developments in the nuclear power industry allow small modular reactors (SMRs) to be mass-produced at relatively low cost and deployed quickly and safely, making the nuclear option more attractive. The American Nuclear Regulatory Commission recently certified the SMR design for use.

    SMRs are mass-produced in factories and then moved to their site of use. They are simple, less expensive, easier to license and operate safely and less susceptible to serious accidents than the traditional large reactors. Additional SMR units can be easily added to increase capacity if required, for example if new industries moved into the area.

    SMR design is new but the concept is not. The US navy has built more than 200 submarine nuclear reactors, most mass-produced in the same manner as the recently certified SMRs, and with no meltdowns or severe accidents.

    The navy experience proves that small mass-produced nuclear reactors can be produced and operated safely. Ireland doesn’t need to build traditional large and super-expensive nuclear reactors. SMRs would suit and could be relatively quickly installed.

    But endlessly harping on about small risks of nuclear simply makes the ideal the enemy of the good. All means of generating electricity have disadvantages – look where burning fossil fuels got us – but the advantages of modern nuclear power swamp the relatively small disadvantages. If we really believe what we proclaim about the catastrophic consequences of a runaway global warming, then we must act with urgent pragmatism.

    Starting up nuclear power in Ireland would greatly help us to meet our greenhouse gas emission targets. In the absence of nuclear power we will depend on burning gas, mostly imported, to generate electricity to supplement wind and solar power for the next 30 years. Nuclear power could save our bacon but if we delay much longer, even that option will be too late to bail us out.

    William Reville is an emeritus professor of biochemistry at UCC



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    A look inside at the Ontario nuclear plant here: from coal to nuclear. This from a big nuclear plant. Just imagine what a combi w smaller SMRs will do!

    Some of the Greens are waking up..but too slow.

    I never saw the point of Ireland going nuclear because of costs/benefits equations. However, the SMR reactors look very promising. My eyes got opened 5 years ago. Most people are unaware of their existence. Collectively we are still suffering from Chernobyl syndrom.

    As i keep saying: lets stay friendly w the UK. We might need each other more due to close geography which seems increasingly important..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    "In today’s world, batteries can be used to delay the use of solar electricity for at most a few hours. In exceptional situations, perhaps the holding period can be increased to a few days."

    Another green dream of some super storage to which we can depend is to put it mildly impossible to achieve for a very long time.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    SMR's are probably the way to go. Once one gets built and switched on, if the cost projections hold, I think there will be an absolute sea-change and an avalanche of orders.

    Converntional NPPs are a lot cheaper than, say offshore wind, already.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,014 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Kildare P's post above is excellent and just the level of realism that people need to have.

    A fast growing economy and population is never going to see a reduction in energy consumption. Yes, renewables are one of the suite of solutions as we go forward, but in the meantime it is incumbent on the Government to use any and facilities on the island to generate power that is plentiful enough and at a digestible price for consumers, even if that means bringing coal and peat back up to full capacity for the time being.

    And the Government needn't be laying the guilt trip on ordinary people about it either. Its the fault of successive Government's policies over the last 20 years that has brought us to where we are, not just in energy generation but in the near unchecked development of massive commercial consumers.

    The snowballing energy crisis we are in really does eclipse Housing or Health as the most serious issue facing the Country, as it has the potential to paralyse across the board.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭KildareP


    The arguments about nuclear being "too large" for our grid are made on our energy consumption figures for the last 20-30 years.

    The green plan is to basically electrify absolutely everything we can over the next 20-30 years on top of phenomenal ongoing industrial and population growth, and then switch anything that can't be feasibly directly electrically powered, such as aviation and marine, to an alternate fuel source like hydrogen which needs a significantly larger electrical energy source to produce.


    Look at a typical household today, the vast majority of it's energy consumption is not through electricity at all, it's derived directly through oil or gas by burning it.

    CRU gives average household usage for electricity at 4,200kWh.

    Heating?

    To date in Ireland has been primarily oil or gas based.

    CRU gives average household usage for gas at 11,000kWh, which is just shy of 1100L of kerosene (10.35kWh/L). Most gas boilers are condensing so we'll assume higher efficiency in the 90% range, or 10,000kWh of the energy ends up as heat in your home that needs to be replaced by a heatpump. Heatpump co-efficient of performance, let's say 3.5, so 2,800kWh of electrical input energy needed. (I'm ignoring that some houses may also use gas for cooking since amounts will be very small compared to space heating)

    Transport?

    To date in Ireland has been primarily petrol or diesel cars.

    The average private household mileage is 17,000KM, which is about 2,500kWh of electricity in an EV with a typical 15kWh/100KM efficiency.


    So your average household looks set to see their energy consumption of 4,200kWh per year increase by 5,300kWh to almost 10,000kWh a year - that's more than doubling the average energy consumption for every house. 90,000 more houses needed is what we're told by government. All this new (to the grid) power ultimately has to be sourced from some form of generation.


    Then we want to electrify our railways, replace our public transport bus fleet with EV equivalents (the double decker bus version the NTA has procured that can do up to 300KM on a charge requires a 454kWh battery and their initial order is for 800 vehicles), switch traditional fossil based heavy energy industry like steelmaking, concrete production, welding and smelting to electrical means and be in a position to support new modern industry like datacentres and hydrogen production.


    At the moment, we're just hoping wind and sun can do it, at a workable cost, and that the ancillary systems renewable needs like synchronisers and short and long term storage, mature enough to be doable at grid scale. At the moment there is absolutely no guarantee any of that can happen but yet that's exactly what our plan in Ireland currently is: Plough on with renewables only and hope for the best.

    No more a plan than me promising my family I'll have them sorted for life once my big win comes in from PaddyPower and I win Friday's Euromillions...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭ps200306


    A discussion on the continuing disaster that is Germany's Energiewende. Documents how the remaining nuclear plants are still being shut down in favour of continued burning of lignite. Includes eye-openers like Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck (who is also Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Climate Action) going to Qatar to beg for emergency supplies of LNG but then turning them down when the Qataris wanted a 20 year supply contract (shades of Eamon Ryan there, committing to the absolute bare minimum of fossil fuel requirements).

    It descends into pure farce (starting at 43:45) with Germany seeking to buy 0.5 million tonnes of hydrogen annually from Canada, in the form of ammonia. The energy required is the equivalent of Canada's entire wind power capacity. Canada suggested using some nuclear electrons from a New Brunswick CANDU reactor, but German environmentalists insisted this would scupper the deal. If used for power generation in Germany, the hydrogen would yield about one fifth of the electricity used to make it in Canada. It would also be the equivalent of just one of the nukes being shut down in Germany in the prime of its life, though vastly more expensive.

    Sounds a lot like Ireland, with the German Greens continuing to push their unworkable ideological agenda while German industry faces an existential crisis. Note, this was made just before the sabotage of the NordStream pipelines, and sounds like there was quite strong support in Germany for lifting sanctions on Russia in order to ease the energy crisis. I wonder if this played into the saboteur's motivation to close off this option. (My working hypothesis is still that the Yanks are the most likely culprit).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Ottawa and Ontario impact on so called "manmade climate change" and subsequent temperature rise is negligible. Pretty much the same as whole of Ireland impact. They too want to lead by example because "we have to do something"!!! Something, something and then the rest sure will follow us. Or not.

    More and more scientists wake up to see the hoax we are being sold.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭ps200306


    I don't know much about it, but am I right in thinking the conspicuous channels and ditches in the following photo are for drainage to prevent turbine foundations from being undermined? Is it the case that peatland gets drained for wind farms, but farmers are going to be forced to rewet areas they have farmed for decades?




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's strange that so many posters are pro-pollution when it's effects are devastating, even for the unborn

    Via Euronews: Pollution and forever chemicals inhaled during pregnancy may harm unborn babies' future fertility




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The expansion of the interconnector network seems to be continuing unabated, this time a 3,000MW link between Greece and Egypt, due to open in 7 years.

    More of this please 👍👍

    This 1373km long undersea cable will bring 'green energy' from Egypt to Europe's electricity grid 




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭ginger22


    ER on the news all day yesterday telling people to reduce their electricity usage, Takes some neck to try and guilt trip the citizens for the incompetence of this government. Next he will be telling us to cut back to 2 meals per day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭KildareP


    And true to form, rather than address valid issues raised, resort back to doom and gloom statements and accuse those raising said issues of being pro-pollution, overly sensitive and other such nonsense.

    Tell me - are you pro-devastation, prepared to see Western civilisation as we know it, and civilisation that the developing world are aspiring to, brought to its knees by the unproven, uncosted and badly thought out plans to bank our future energy needs solely and exclusively on renewable energy?

    Happy to see people die in their homes from the cold?

    Prepared to see elderly and vulnerable cut off because they have no electricity, fumbling around in the dark of night, with cordless phones and mobiles that have no battery or no signal, and no way of calling for help in the pitch black?

    Wait hours for an ambulance that doesn't show because they've electrified the fleet and because of widespread power outages due to a calm, cold period, they haven't been able to charge the ambulance fleet up to make it there and back to you?

    Maybe that part of the SWOT analysis can be put in the next green manifesto - oh wait, it would seem they haven't even done one to begin with judging by how it's all panning out in reality and the green response to why it's going wrong...


    See - we can all come up with doom and gloom scenarios, that's easy.

    Coming up with actual, verifiable, provable and workable solutions, that's not so easy!



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Funny you should be so concerned when Gormley used financial penalties to force people to use diesels when diesel emissions were shown to contain the most potent carcinogen ever discovered. This was known at least a decade prior and has nothing whatsoever to do with NOX so that specoious excuse of dieselgate is irrelevant.

    The government of Ireland cares more for its high revenue stream, and reputation, than the health of the people. To this day, it has done nothing to reverse this promotion of diesel in favour of petrol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    What's it going to cost and where are these solar 'parks'? Go on name them. Given Egypt just signed contracts with both Russia and Korea to build a large NPP I'm calling BS on this project.

    All that solar potential and they are goimg for a NPP. Smart move of course.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That would be the same Egypt who this year joined the nuclear club. Construction has started on their first ever first nuclear plant. It is being built by the Russian company Rosatom with a loan from Russia and will house four 1,200 megawatt reactors.

    Egypt has also recently been expanding it`s power generation capacity with gas fired plants built by German company Siemens.

    Egypt are hosting COP27. If Eamon is not too tired after cycling there and needing long naps it might be an idea for him to take a look at both. He might even learn something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Isn't he the lad who wants us to actually increase our electricity usage through the push to heat pumps and EVs? Some neck as you say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No, I believe you are supposed to reduce your use of hot water with shorter showers in order to save the energy to pay for some of his other nonsense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Things are not looking good this winter, get the candles ready folks if the greens have'nt taxed them😀,can I take it that ER will resign if we have power cuts, after all we are told he is an honourable man and will do the right thing or will he blame everything and everyone else for his shortcomings, this would be the first power cuts since the dark days of the oil crisis in the 70's, this would rank as an abject policy failure from the greens and should also trigger an election.Its unbelievable that this country is in such a mess energy wise when a schoolkid could have foreseen/rectified the situation.

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/irelands-risk-energy-shortfalls-rising-grid-operator-2022-10-06/



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    For the first time in my 58 year old life i am getting really worried about the future. I have become a much more positive person over the years and managed to find my way through life without too much damage and that is to a large part due to good luck (genetics, a stable upbringing, a good wife etc). Even Covid didnt make a dent in my outlook.

    But now almost all the signs are pointing to a disaster. Im not naturally inclined to believe in an imminent doom but i believe that the Green agenda and the blinkered stupidity that goes with it is going to make the situation so much worse so much quicker. The EU seems determined to help its citizens jump off the cliff either voluntarily or by force. This global recession has not seriously started yet and this winter will only be the start. Confidence is at a low point, investment stalled. I see a banking collapse without immediate recovery. It will take insurance etc with it. And the markets who have nowhere to go.Then a total collapse of industrialization and poverty, likely to start in Germany if i look at the EU. All kinds of real fascists lurking around the corner not the imaginary ones.

    So, i am getting scared and will, for the first time go to the big Asian grocery store and buy a shitload of yet cheap dried and tinned foods. Just to be sure. Maybe someone very smart will point out the pitfalls in my reasoning.

    Post edited by deholleboom on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    If your that worried I would suggest buying a camping stove to and weeks worth of cannisters for it and some water purification tablets or one of those container they use in Africa it's a pump the also purifies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭rogber


    I suspect you're just reaching that stage that seems to afflict many white men as they approach 60, where they confuse their own imminent irreversible decline with the state of the world. Try to remember the two things are actually separate, and you might cheer up again



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Apparently they actually did raise the tax on some candles in the last few weeks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Ah you must be right! Im just worried about my Harley and maintaining my swimming pool. And it is good to learn that black/ coloured men of my age dont suffer from this. You learn something new every day!😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Crazy as it sounds you are correct.

    Since January 1st the V.A.T. rate on white and cylindrical candle is 23%. Prior to that it was zero.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Funny, I'm the opposite -- exactly the same age, not so good genetics, a very unstable upbringing, poor relationships. I'm not a positive person by nature, and wasted half the 70s and 80s worrying about imminent nuclear catastrophe. The failure of Armageddon to materialise, and the pointlessness of worrying about it, got me interested in why human beings tend to fret about large scale negative events that are way outside of their personal control. I think it's an evolutionary endowment -- concern and care about your future makes you more likely to propagate your genes, so Nature has a vested interest in keeping you worried. Worrying about global events is probably an accidental spillover of the personal and tribal concerns that dominated all of human evolutionary history until the most recent of times.

    You've heard the phrase "don't sweat the small stuff". I reckon "don't sweat the big stuff" is even more important. Saving the planet is all well and good but people tend to get a large dose of pragmatism when their personal livelihood is threatened. The Green's will be out on their ears in no time when the sh1t hits the fan. We will be back to doing what is necessary to keep the lights on and yes, that means burning every hydrocarbon molecule we can get our hands on until we figure out a better solution than the cockeyed dystopia the Greens are trying to foist on us. Roger Pielke calls it the iron law of climate policy.

    Can't resist a little aside: the guy who said "don't sweat the small stuff" never made it to your age. He died of a pulmonary embolism at age 45, during a flight on a promo tour of his last book: "Don’t Get Scrooged: How to Thrive in a World Full of Obnoxious, Incompetent, Arrogant and Downright Mean-Spirited People". The thought that neither the small stuff nor the big stuff ultimately matters is quite freeing. Don't let doom mongers (especially the Green variety) own your head space. Don't let them own the narrative either -- there's a bloke on here who thinks he can just toss out the phrase "collapse of the ice sheets" and you will toe the line. We will sort out climate change much more sensibly when the Green puritans are told to take a hike. They are a miserable bunch who -- speaking from personal experience -- are probably depressive by nature. And speaking of Puritans (the original variety), how about a little bible quote as an antidote to existential angst: "Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?" (Matt 6:27). Don't sweat the small/big stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭ps200306


    A slightly worrying snippet from your link:

    "It will take an extraordinary confluence of events for the lights to go out, for example a very, very cold winter, no wind on a very, very cold January evening, the UK being in a similar situation or a major fossil plant failing."

    Unfortunately the UK is saying something very similar:

    "[The National Grid's] central view remains that there will be enough energy to provide Britain with similar levels of electricity to previous winters... [unless] the energy crisis in Europe would result in Britain not being able to import electricity from France, Belgium or the Netherlands"

    Then you go and look at France:

    This year, EDF forecasts French nuclear production at 280-300 terawatt-hours, the lowest since 1993. France has imported power from the likes of Germany and Belgium during the summer, when it would usually be exporting it ... Six analysts polled by Reuters estimated that France's power capacity during the winter will fall below EDF's forecasts, by 10 to 15 GW a day until at least late January. This means France will need to import more power when the rest of Europe will also be facing an energy crunch, or risk blackouts.

    What about Germany?

    "Germany may have to slash electricity exports to France and other countries this winter to prevent a breakdown of its power grid, a senior executive of the country’s largest grid operator has warned."

    Seems an awful lot of countries are saying "there's nothing to worry about as long as the neighbours don't let us down".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Going to be fun wanting solidarity when it's freezing cold.



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