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National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    It actually turned out to be NBI! They seem to be bridging a gap on the road. I don't know for sure, but has the fibre some degree of redundancy built into the design? i.e, if the fibre on one side of a DP got damaged/cut, would the fibre run on the other side of the DP ensure connectivity remained? In effect, does it act as a ring design of sorts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Budget allocations for 2023 (calendar year presumably)

    Connectivity and Communications Delivery

     An additional 80,000 to 85,000 premises will be passed by end 2023 as part of the National Broadband Plan bringing the total to between 180,000 and 185,000 by end 2023;



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,549 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    They have 100 Gbps fibre-rings or metro-rings (Metro Network) connecting local exchanges to the regional PoH. The loop means there is built-in redundancy if any part of the loop goes down.

    Haven't heard of it in the local rollouts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭heavydawson


    The reason I ask is because on both sides of the "bridge" there were customers already connected to the NBI network, so the only way I could think this would work would be if the laser was coming from both directions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,549 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Their target this year, to the end of Jan 2023, is 102,000 passed, which they expect to exceed, they mentioned it during their appearance before the Oireachtas committee earlier this year. So roughly 4 months, excluding Christmas/New Year break to reach or exceed their target.

    Post edited by The Cush on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,549 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    gov.ie - Statement by Minister McGrath on Budget 2023 (www.gov.ie)

    The implementation of the Plan has passed 75,000 households, with funding of €217.5 million allocated in 2023 to reach a target of up to 185,000 households by the end of next year.

    Up to €217.5m earmarked for National Broadband Plan – The Irish Times



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    By my reckoning NBI need to increase the passed rate to 112K/year for the last three years (2024-2026) to get finished in 7 years.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Apologies, it's worse. They need to increase to 140K/year from 2024 to be finished on time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    ComReg determination re NBI's request to be allowed access to unblock Eircom's ducts with its own staff or subcontractors.

    "https://www.comreg.ie/publication/draft-determination-of-a-dispute-between-nbi-and-eircom-concerning-nbis-request-for-duct-access"

    This request was made on August 13th 2021. It appears that Eircom has been raising objections and NBI lodged a dispute with ComReg on 2nd August 2022. ComReg has given Eircom 55 days from 28th September to grant access or provide an alternative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,549 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Comreg has only published a draft Determination and are consulting on it until Oct 12th. The 55-day clock doesn't start until Comreg publishes its final Determination. And if eircom aren't happy with that they can appeal to the High Court. So possibly a long way to go until this is sorted.

    There is a parallel but related duct dispute between Comreg and eircom with BT as a notice party, on the pricing of duct unblocking and repairs and who pays when third parties are installing sub-ducts. Same could apply to NBI depending on the specific access product.

    High Court hearing on this dispute was back in July with judgement due around Nov.

    Peter Hendrick discussed these duct access issues back in Jun before the Oireachtas committee.

    On the July court hearing, Comreg vs. eircom

    Mr. Peter Hendrick: We have a request in with Eir for self-install duct. Eir is currently engaged with the regulator on that. It is predominantly about the integrity of its network and the cost of repair. At the moment, that is in front of the courts with the Commission for Communications Regulation, ComReg, and we hope there will be a ruling in July.

    Once that ruling is positive, it means we would look to bring that forward with Eir where we can start installing our own sub-duct where we are less dependent-----

    Chairman: Is Eir doing that submission to the regulator in partnership with NBI?

    Mr. Peter Hendrick: There is a product in the market today but it would not be something that NBI can use because it does not allow us to repair the duct. It would allow us to install a sub-duct-----

    Chairman: In terms of NBI's discussions with Eir and the self-install, is NBI at a point where Eir is agreeable to allow NBI to do it subject to------

    Mr. Peter Hendrick: Not at the moment. At the moment, Eir is going through this with ComReg in the courts around Eir trying to protect the integrity of its network. This is a product and service that is available in almost all European jurisdictions, including the UK, as operators are allowed to put sub-ducts into existing passive incumbent networks and repair any blockages that are in that duct. Therefore, once we have access to that product or service, it means we can bring forward some of those contractors.

    Chairman: Is ComReg taking Eir to court on that?

    Mr. Peter Hendrick: Eir is defending in court against the product due to protecting the integrity of its network and the cost of repairing the duct and who pays for that.

    Chairman: The regulator is supportive of what NBI is proposing.

    On NBI's request to eir

    Chairman: If that came to pass, would it speed up the roll-out significantly?

    Mr. Peter Hendrick: I will let Mr. Malone give the details.

    Mr. T.J. Malone: Yes, it would increase it. It definitely would increase it at a fair clip if we got it done. The key to this is that the quicker we get it implemented, the quicker we can actually speed up. The longer it takes to get a product into the market and-----

    Chairman: If the courts find in ComReg's favour, is Eir then required to do a deal with NBI on that self-install?

    Mr. T.J. Malone: The way it works is that we have made a request to Eir for ourselves. We believe our request is slightly separate to what is going on in the court at the moment and that they are unrelated matters. We made a request to Eir on that basis. ComReg backed it up and said that it is an unrelated matter and, therefore, Eir should engage with us. Eir feels it could prejudice its case. The case is only a matter of weeks away so Eir is holding off until it sees the direction of travel as to where that case goes.

    Once that case is held and we see some direction of travel, our view would be that it could go two ways on this. We would like to engage with Eir and develop a product under our existing major infrastructure programme, MIP, agreement. It would speed things up if we could do it under that particular MIP. If that does not work and we have to apply through a regulated access product as it would go, it could take anywhere between 12 and 18 months before we would actually have a product that was available for us to speed up the programme. Therefore, while the direction of travel-----

    Chairman: NBI would have to apply to the regulator for that product.

    Mr. T.J. Malone: We would have to apply to Eir, which then goes through the regulator. From what we have seen from the regulator so far, ComReg would be in favour of us getting a product and believes that we are------

    Separate but related proceedings

    Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú: I imagine the reason for the court case is that Eir does not really want to deliver this to the NBI.

    Mr. T.J. Malone: Not necessarily. We are not part of the existing proceedings that are there. It is nothing to do with us and it is a separate but related area.

    Post edited by The Cush on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Comptroller and Auditor General has been looking at the NBP.

    "https://www.audit.gov.ie/en/find-report/publications/2022/9-implementation-of-the-national-broadband-plan.pdf"

    Roll-out

    Take-up

    Penalties




  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Agent Avenger


    It’s been a week since pure contacted nbi about us only getting speeds of 550mb and not the 1gb we ordered and still haven’t heard anything. The technician who did the installation wouldn’t believe me that we had ordered 1gb as he was only getting 550mb on his own modem. I hope this won’t end up going on and on.

    Post edited by Agent Avenger on


  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭davpower


    Most importantly make sure they don't charge you for 1gb internet. If they're not responding, you should make an official complaint, their code of practice outlines the procedure https://www.puretelecom.ie/code-of-practice, you should get resolution within 5 days. I finally got my issue with Vodafone/NBI resolved and am getting 928mb down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Agent Avenger


    Fantastic news, you were only waiting two months was it? But at last finally resolved! Where did they find the fault?

    I’m not letting this go, I left it a week to give everyone a chance but I’ve been onto nbi and pure again this evening already and waiting on a callback tomorrow. I know it’s not pure’s fault but it’s frustrating that I have to keep going through them and not directly to nbi or the kn group.

    Hopefully will have a resolution this week or at least a time frame for one. Would love to know why we’re not getting 1gb though yet we can get 550mb…



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Pious14


    got the black round thing (excuse my ignorance on the name of this) on the pole outside my house last week. Would I be close to connection, NBP website says Jan-March 2023. Do you think this timeframe is still accurate or could it be closer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭baz9375


    The DPs (Distribution Points) were installed on our road on 20th January 2021 and we went live 4th May 2021. So your Jan-March 2023 is in line with the period we waited after the DPs were installed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭davpower


    Yeah just short of two months, in the end Vodafone cancelled the order and reordered and it just worked as I had everything pre installed. So don't even know if it was a line fault or an order fault. Anyway best of luck with your order, we don't know ourselves now with all this speed!



  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭scunermac


    I’m on the Portlaoise DA and the NBI vans have been out hanging loops of Fibre on every 5/6 pole in our area this week.

    The timeline for connection of this DA is currently Nov 22 - Feb 23. I guess that is ambitious given we’re not even at the DP stage, yeah?



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Agent Avenger


    Just wondering how long it took everyone to switch to voip? I was told two weeks ago that we could keep the phone on the copper lines for now but yesterday was told we’d be double charged so they started the switch yesterday afternoon. This morning we had no phone so I connected the phone to the fon port on the fritzbox but we still have no phone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭amdaley28


    We were switched over in a few hours.

    I suppose it varies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16 DaveHD


    I am with eir for my sins and I asked about this as the phone port on the router is not active. I was told that "the phone would stay via copper for the foreseeable future as the broadband is provisioned by NBI and it could take years for eir to switch these customers to their service!"

    I am not charged for for effectively two services but they do show up separately on the bill. A series of discounts are applied to the full Phone service charge to reduce it to the additional Anytime call package, that is not included in the broadband and phone standard package which is off peak calls.

    Also eir "charged" to be connected to their service. This amounted to €330. However once I had ordered the service they gave me a credit of €100 then on the second bill, the second because the installation did not take place on the initial date as a site survey had not been carried out and the fibre had actually not been run down the lane, they charged €330 gave and gave a discount of €230!

    The initial credit then taking care of the balance.

    We all know that that is going to be a almighty argument at some point in the future when they get the billing wrong when the initial contract ends or when someone arbitrarily decides that two services being supplied



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Agent Avenger


    I rang back today, looks like it’ll be Friday or Saturday before it’s switched over. Very annoying as our mobile signal isn’t great at home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    All the mobile operators do voice over wifi now, so get that enabled!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Yesterday, Minister Smyth had a warning for blue area (urban) providers who are cherry-picking their roll-outs and leaving micro black spots behind. The warning came in the context of the Communications Regulation Bill 2022 currently going through the Oireachtas.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2022-10-06a.369#g387

    There is then a possibility that there will be people in black-spot urban areas who do not have broadband at a time when we will have reached 100% coverage under the national broadband plan. That plan is designed in such a way that providers must complete an area in full before they get their payment. They cannot leave anybody out, which is in marked contrast to what is happening in commercial areas, where a commercial operator could be providing fibre broadband on a street and then reach a point where the last person on that street is rather hard to provide for, and that operator just turns the truck around and connects up somebody who is a little easier. What such operators are doing as a result of this is leaving little black spots all around our urban areas, towns, villages and cities. I want to send a signal today to the fixed broadband and fibre broadband suppliers that if they do this, they will find at a later time that they will be required to go back to those places, at great expense, and connect those people who were left out. It is not a sensible long-term policy or strategy for those companies to find themselves at a point where they are legally required to go back to connect up those customers they left out because they thought it was in their short-term interest on that day to leave the last person at the end of the cul-de-sac disconnected from their network. I strongly advise anybody who is deploying fibre broadband not to leave streets and areas with little black spots that they will have to come back to complete in the same way we would not paint a wall and leave holes in it for the next day. That is my message to the broadband companies today.

    On a related matter Comreg are due to decide on the Copper Switch-Off in Q1-2023. Presumably a fibre USO will be part of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,549 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Looks like a fibre USO is coming down the tracks alright to replace the copper USO. Either that or the NBP will have to step in to infill those areas.

    Likely no final Comreg decision on copper switch-off until the passage of Communications Regulation Bill is completed.

    Post edited by The Cush on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭Ah-Watch


    Is there any provider on the NBI who will provide copper phone service as part of their NBI bundle or does everyone do it via VOIP? Friend looking to retain copper phone for alarm service and get NBI broadband. GSM alarm isn't an option because there's no mobile signal in the area at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    The Department is back before the Committee of Public Accounts to discuss the NBP and the recent C&AG report.

    Thur 13th October 09.30 Committee of Public Accounts CR3, LH 2000

    (09.30) Appropriation Accounts 2021: Vote 29 — Environment, Climate and Communications

    Officials from Department of Environment, Climate and Communications

    Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2021: Chapter 9 — Implementation of the National Broadband Plan

    Committee chairman Brian Stanley TD was recently love-bombed by NBI at the Ploughing Championships so perhaps his humour will have improved, or perhaps not.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Got call for installation this Friday but have issue where nbi didn't run the main cable pasr my house or to the next two houses past me.

    Is it possible that kn will run fibre from an underground manhole 30m up the road from me as have ducting from it to outside my house or is it a case that needs to be connected directly outside your own home?

    Is there a constraint on the length fibre kn will run for connections to homes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,549 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Does the main fibre cable run overground on poles and if so where is the nearest distribution point to your house?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Maybe fibre is uderground. Nearest distribution is neighbors manhole



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