Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

kippy · 07-10-2022 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715417#Comment_119715417

Sound.

Rikand · 07-10-2022 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714923#Comment_119714923

I posted it, 4 posts above this one.

She wanted more money to be given to Clerical Officers because as someone in a management position herself, she hates that she sees new CO's come into the service and then leave because the pay they are on is not enough compared to what other people in the private sector are earning. She feels that the Civil Service is struggling to attract and maintain talented graduates because the rates of pay are so slow for entry level COs and that if a bigger increase was offered to CO's then the state might be able to attract and retain more of these people.

pc7 · 08-10-2022 8:15am

So back to the deal, has there been an official announcement that it’s been accepted by all? Know they were meeting yday, really hope they get the finger out now and payrolls are notified and on the case.

kippy · 08-10-2022 8:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715854#Comment_119715854

Zero specifics however.

It's fine I will move on.

kippy · 08-10-2022 8:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716345#Comment_119716345

It was supposed to be ratified yesterday. I assume there's some official processes to follow for implementation in the next 4 to 8 weeks

dubrov · 08-10-2022 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715142#Comment_119715142

I don't think you realise what inflation is. If your salary buys you less than the previous year then it is effectively a real pay cut.

Plenty are getting pay rises of inflation and above in the private sector. Income tax receipts are up 16% although i appreciate that is not evenly spread.

kippy · 08-10-2022 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716480#Comment_119716480

Private sector wages are not increasing in line with inflation. That is a myth. I know plenty people working various jobs in the prave sector and noe that I am aware of have received more than 2 to 3 percent increase this year, some have received nothing and a small number have been made redundant. You may find some isolated examples but they are not the norm.

I am very aware of what inflation is and very aware of what a pay cut is.

Income tax receipts are not a gauge of individualised wages in any sector.

08-10-2022 1:06pm

most inflation in the Irish economy is imported in any case. we're not a closed system and spikes in energy and supply chain shocks from the various well-discussed events going right back from brexit through suez blockage let alone covid and now ukraine all impact far more than wage inflation.

its a red herring, across either of public or private sector, to raise scares about the effect of wage increases on the wider economy.

if i ever see a poster at it i always wonder what kind of tone id see them take in threads about final crashes caused by rampant speculation or poor governance (always blamed on authorities and never on the profit-chasing lobbying companies ofc)

they're hardly ever the same posters you see criticising financial impropriety in the private sector nor crisis/extractive profiteering so the agenda as always is pretty clear.

wages *should* chase inflation and the waged classes should visit electoral havoc on any political party who dares state otherwise. anything less than such a demand is a statement that we are here to serve the cause of profit and hey lads im here for the craic and ill do my week's work but after that, im not your guy sorry

Hotblack Desiato · 08-10-2022 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715242#Comment_119715242

More BS. Pay rates and pay increases are exactly the same whether one is a union member or not.

Hotblack Desiato · 08-10-2022 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716509#Comment_119716509

Anecdotes are not data.

kippy · 08-10-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717180#Comment_119717180

What data have you provided? Zero relevant data from what I can see.

If every private sector worker were getting pay increases to match inflation businesses would be closing left right and centre.

SouthWesterly · 08-10-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717171#Comment_119717171

I don't think I mentioned non union members in my post, but do carry on. 🤣

exitstageleft · 08-10-2022 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717180#Comment_119717180

Au contraire, the plural of anecdote is data.

kippy · 08-10-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717180#Comment_119717180

If your standpoint really is, all private sector workers have received payrises in line with inflation this year and will do again next - you need to to take a long hard look at your critical thinking skills.

gameoverdude · 08-10-2022 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717155#Comment_119717155

I'm sorry, wages should chase inflation? I'm not sure what you mean? What about chasing deflation?

If I took you up wrong, I will of course apologise

More money when things are crap, keep stumm when things are good?

And I am PS.

gameoverdude · 08-10-2022 7:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718323#Comment_119718323

Asking for data is a side step. Private sector companies, I can only talk for tech roles, are going to shed roles soon. No keeping up with regards to inflation. That's a fact.

kippy · 08-10-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718506#Comment_119718506

I totally agree.

Coffee shops, restaurants and pubs are beginning to close left right and centre as well. In January when the revenue warehousing period from COVID expires things will no doubt take a downward turn.

And yet you have people who genuinely think private sector workers are getting payrises to match inflation.

Jesus wept.

08-10-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718495#Comment_119718495

ive no idea what you're saying here, sorry

08-10-2022 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718519#Comment_119718519

over what period is the thing kippy.

private sector wages (obviously sectoral etc etc etc considerations need to be factored) have been on the up for years, often ahead of inflation and the affect is cumulative.

picking a current year, one many feel might be the beginning of a downturn, and using the exceptional inflation in that one year to refute a *multi-year* pay deal is overly dismissive imo

maybe few enough workers are getting 8-10% (i can tell you now that in tech it *definitely* isnt none and from what i can see its actually not at all uncommon tho) this year but plenty of ppl in private sector have enjoyed a couple of percent rises above what we were managing to get out of govt *every year* since 2014 and the case for ours being fairly labelled recovery not increase have all already been made.

its impossible to compare like for like ofc but over the period of the last decade id say it's actually a very clear case to show that the sectors of the private sphere that are most suitably compared to most public sector work have seen wage growth far in excess of our side.

inflation, in that case, should be something to demand parity with at the very least imo and if that seem ridiculous to some in current straits its not in my view at all unreasonable, because otherwise as ive said its just more acceptance that out terms and conditions continue on a downward trend against every relevant measure

08-10-2022 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718506#Comment_119718506

we are always either still coming out of or just about to go into an economic phase which means we shouldnt get real term pay rises

id imagine many public sector workers must be fairly sick of hearing one or the other by now, its fifteen years old by now

gameoverdude · 08-10-2022 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718575#Comment_119718575

My comment is pretty much what you said to me in your previous comment. I am also PS!

I would disagree with wages rising with inflation unless they go down when inflation drops. And I like a wage increase. I'd just leave if I feel my monetary worth is not as I see it.

08-10-2022 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718682#Comment_119718682

i think we had a guy here for several hundred posts who sought the same and id be in agreement to an extent.

of course we took a 15% effective pay cut in the last crash so its not a moot question at all.

what id say is more practical, taking into account our job security, is that *over the course of several multi year pay deals* public sector salaries mark the general growth in private sector, and/or inflation.

i can imagine circumstances where those two are radically different over short time spans but if inflation outstrips even private sector wages over an extended period of time then that doesnt mean we should accept the same- theres no war but a class war!

note (edit) i dont seek parity in terms of amounts, im talking general growth shouldnt be way off either because that would inarguably be a dropping of standards of remuneration against the two most meaningful markers and why on earth would that be seen as something to argue for or accept?)

HartsHat · 09-10-2022 11:29am

Two things the vote shows:

1. The vast vast majority of PS workers thought this a good deal (Over 90% in every Union I've seen). Therefore the idea that a subsection of the PS, say COs, didn't think it a good deal isn't sustainable.

2. Those earlier in this thread who said there was discontent with the deal or said it might be voted down were either lying, being lied to, or are just completely out of touch with public sector workers.

wangchung · 09-10-2022 4:03pm

This Govt tried to scare monger people into accepting this pay offer and using the restoration of the Haddington Road agreement as a carrot as if they were doing everyone a favour . Not every area in the Civil Service have been given the option of having the pre HRA hours restored which is a disgrace

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2022 12:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718298#Comment_119718298

Actually the plural of "anecdote" is "bullshit".

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2022 12:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717296#Comment_119717296

You are making a claim. Substantiate it with something more than "a fella told me".

It's not up to me or anyone else to evidence your claims.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718575#Comment_119718575

Exactly, the same old BS every time.

We need to stop signing up to pay "deals" which leave us poorer than before.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2022 12:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720600#Comment_119720600

Or (3) they're cowed into it, and have zero faith in the ability of their union so-called leaders to actually do their job.

Dodge · 10-10-2022 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724098#Comment_119724098

so you’re OK with some anecdotes as evidence then

Because the only data that matters is that 90% of the public service agreed to the deal. Some on here seem to think that it’s only the 10% that ‘thought’ about the ramifications of that, but frankly that’s obnoxious horse shite

As for wages, PS wages will never match some wages in the private sector. Nor should they really. There are other factors very much in favour of public sector workers

And for anyone who joined since 1995, there is no impediment to switching between private sector and public sector if you believe you’d be better off on the other side.

kippy · 10-10-2022 7:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724081#Comment_119724081

There are posters in here making claims that private sector workers are getting payrises in line with inflation with zero evidence. I am saying this isn't true and in many cases private sector workers are getting laid off. You want me to provide reports of layoffs?

The original poster I responded too was adamant that private sector workers were on the pigs back in relation to wage rises which is patently untrue.

Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

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