Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] Spoilers

corkie · 07-10-2022 1:06pm

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_Eye_%28episode%29

https://variety.com/2022/tv/recaps/rings-of-power-recap-the-eye-episode-seven-1235395874/

Somethings happen, but given the highs of last week, an aftermath episode was due.

BruteStock · 07-10-2022 8:04pm

Not sure if brandifoot gave up her friends whereabouts to the wizards or threw them of course. It would be only fair to think she ratted him out given their history of selfish behaviour.

It was great when the wizard incinerated their camp. One of the best moments of the show for me.

Lol@ galadriel walking away from a volcanic eruption and not a hair on her head was out of place. How can there be any suspense or tension in future episodes when the main character is invincible and indestructible.

Mordor was written on the screen because the showrunners think the audience is stupid. The show is stupid. The lack of depth and substance gets exposed badly when there is no action on the screen. Another crap episode.

corkie · 07-10-2022 8:34pm

@BruteStock Mordor was written on the screen because the showrunners think the audience is stupid.

https://www.polygon.com/23387155/lord-rings-power-mordor-adar-the-eye

But the crux here comes from the most fundamental — and nerdiest — origin of The Lord of the Rings: J.R.R. Tolkien was a professor of linguistics. And so most of the things in Middle-earth don’t just have names, but names in the setting’s multiple invented languages. The name “Mordor” itself didn’t come from orcs or any of Sauron’s forces. Dwarves called it “Nargûn,” and Middle-earth’s elves coined the word “Mordor,” which means “dark land,” that was subsequently adopted by humans as well.

Adar, a guy who defiantly refers to himself by the orc word for orc — uruk — rather than an elven label, doesn’t seem like the type to name his new land something elvish, much less to name it something negative. It also wouldn’t make much sense if he came up with the name that elves would later use for Mordor on the spot.

One reviewer critiqued that it wasn't said and another glad they went with powerpoint display of it.

Timestamped:- https://youtu.be/mkbRDYOs4cY?t=709

odyssey06 · 07-10-2022 9:16pm

Isildur in peril and they cut to the aussie billie barry kid singing a song...

TomSweeney · 07-10-2022 10:28pm

Rubbish episode, such cringe, why did they do Mordor as a title card at the end and not have Ardar say it ?

and then look at the camera and wink - I mean they might as well at this stage ...

Greyfox · 07-10-2022 10:31pm

Just watched the latest episode, the first great episode, Yay.

ixoy · 07-10-2022 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715489#Comment_119715489

The explanation for the Mordor naming bit is in a post above.

Enjoyed the episode myself. Galadriel ate a bit of humble piece and lost a bit of the arrogance, making her a teeny bit less cold. Not a patch on Elrond who has genuine warmth and who is a character I can actually care about.

Mr.Nice Guy · 08-10-2022 1:06am

Writing 'Mordor' on the screen was so lame. Just have Adar say it. Who cares if the nerds or purists would nitpick? They're going to find fault with all this anyway. It was a really cringeworthy moment that took me out of the moment. Not crazy about how easily everyone accepted Halbrand as king either.

On a more positive note, I do like the friendship between Elrond and Durin.

Loafing Oaf · 08-10-2022 1:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715489#Comment_119715489

ah but

corkie · 08-10-2022 1:05pm

No green screen used!

https://screenrant.com/lotr-rings-power-volcano-aftermath-no-green-screen/

Padre_Pio · 08-10-2022 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716081#Comment_119716081

Elrond and Durin are the saviours of the show. the rest is all style and little substance. Honestly, if I thought this was a low-budget series I would be happy enough, but Amazon got very little value for their money here.

johnnyskeleton · 08-10-2022 2:35pm

As this is coming to the end of the series, I think I can now fairly judge it. I was looking forward to this, even though I was a bit concerned that they didn't have the rights to the silmarillion and so it was just based on the appendices. I want to split my views into firstly the views of it as a stand alone TV show i.e. ignoring JRR Tolkien's books, the Peter Jackson movies and all the stuff around the production etc, before looking at those things at the end.

There are some good things about this show. There are several beautifully rendered CGI locations such as the Mines of Moria, Numenor and the eruption of Mt Doom are all visually stunning. There are also some amazing landscape shots from New Zealand which are also class.

But everything else is bad. Like, really, comically bad.

Some of the other CGI is really cheap looking. The wargs etc are jarring.

The writing is terrible. There are a lot of clichés, and there are weird switches between modern dialogue and anachronistic "fantasy land" language which is jarring. "The sea is always right" is a really baffling catchphrase.

The acting is for the most part mediocre. The actor who plays Adar is really good, but all of the elves are terrible. I don't know if it is how they are directed or if they are just bad, but it's as though the only way they know how to play fantasy beings is to breathlessly whisper their lines. Whenever they try to make a rousing statement e.g. "there is a tempest in me" or "I am Elrond Halfelfin" it fails to land.

The plot is not very coherent. People seem to just be where they need to be without any explanation for same.

The protagonists are, for the most part, evil. Whether it is Gilgalad trying to manipulate people, Elrond breaking his oath (implicitly, if not directly), the dwarfs are antagonistic of others without any explanation for same on screen, the racist Numenoreans, the callous harfoots leaving their sick behind and threatening to steal the wheels from their carts and, of course, Galadriel telling Adar that she will commit genocide and will enjoy doing so.

The bad guys, by contrast, have understandable and relatable motives. The orcs are judged as evil by the other races because of how they look, but really they just want a place to live and not be hunted etc. Adar cares for the orcs like they are his children and exercises mercy on others. He is reasonable and is just trying to lead his people to safety. I am kinda wondering if Ryan Johnson is involved in this and it is going to turn out that Sauron was the good guy all along and everything we hear from Galadriel is propaganda to justify her own wars of conquest.

There seem to be scenes missing in editing. The Queen of Numenor goes from not even permitting Galadriel to leave because no one can leave Numenor, to swinging behind her 100% and commissioning an armada to fight alongside....who exactly?

Irrational choices are explained away in an off hand manner or not at all - Isuldur gets himself and his friends kicked out of Navy school because he hears the voice of destiny calling him to West Numenor. Then we forget about that because it isn't really important. Or abandoning the fortress becacuse it was a trap, but then going back to the village and making the pub their "keep". But they already had a keep, and a much better one too. Lenny Henry refuses to banish the harfoots, but they don't let them walk with them either, despite having a philiosophy of leave no one behind. But then they catch up with each other and are reconciled off screen, so its all fine. Etc etc etc. These are described as nit picking by some on the thread, but to be honest, they are so baffling that they take you out of it and break the suspension of disbelief.

There are no real stakes on screen. Of course, we know that Sauron is going to be forging rings of power etc, but it isn't apparent from what we see on screen what the scenario is. As such, it is hard to get invested when all we really know about Sauron is that he was Morgoth's servant, killed Galadriel's brother and is out there somewhere.

The mcguffin sword is just a key to open a damn, which requires trenches to be built at exact spots so that the water is funneled into a volcano so it can explode on demand. A great feat of engineering and improbable feat of geology and all but fine. If there was a sudden eruption of mount doom, would it not just be a one off instead of starting up an active volcano for thousands of years. Why not make it that the magic key turns on Mount Doom like an old engine or something? It would at least be coherent, if somewhat lazy.

Overall, it's just not engaging. It is boring, and annoying, but it looks good.

In terms of JRR Tolkien books etc, Numenoreans are supposed to be a noble race that get corrupted. In this, they are just a bunch of racist island people. Mithril is just a metal. It doesn't cure sick trees. It wasn't created by a silmarill being smashed in a fight between a balrog (because....why not) and some unspecified Mayar, and the symbolism of the silmarils being in the earth, the sea and the sky is broken. The health of Elves isn't directly linked to the health of trees, it's much more metaphorical than that. They are part of the old, and natural world, and are being destroyed by greed and industrialisation etc. Why exactly does mithril cure trees? How did it get from the top of the mountain to the bottom - can it burrow into the ground?

Having Isildur and Elendil on screen for this part of the story is a bit like the young indiana jones tv show. At the start the Queen doesn't know who Elendil is, but then suddenly he is her field marshall. In the books, he's a king.....

Overall, this is an absolute turkey, and I'm facinated that some people can actually enjoy it. I would be interested to hear from those people what else they like etc. I could imagine it would appeal to someone who wants something a bit more interesting than soap operas, but not as complicated or well made as Game of Thrones. That seems to be a very niche audience to me.

I also think it's mad that the critics reviews on rotten tomatoes were mostly positive after only a few episodes. There has been largely nothing since. You can't really judge a series based on just a few episodes and then leave it at that. I have been following Erik Kain who writes for Forbes a bit, and it is interesting to see how he has gone from enjoying the show to hating it.

byrne249 · 08-10-2022 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717424#Comment_119717424

You must be one of the 'Patently Evil' people Amazon aretalking about, lol! Those reviews are essentially paid for and written before the first episodes ever air. The forbes guy is one of the few who backtracked. My theory is amazon knew this was rubbish before it aired and decided to double down on a diversity and racism media campaign rather than acknowledge the show at all. They are at it again calling people evil for not liking their show, what is the logical fallacy when you defend something from a perspective that nobody attacked? Idiocy???

This is what happens when you forego pilot episodes, audience feedback and are given a blank cheque.

jackboy · 08-10-2022 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718059#Comment_119718059

The most important thing is to have interesting characters, which this sh ow is lacking.

ixoy · 08-10-2022 7:20pm

On the above - critics reviewing half of season, etc is quite standard especially when shows don't have all their episodes dropping in one lot. Most TV shows are reviewed like this. I think it's a bit daft too but there's no conspiracy angle.

I'd be curious to see what the wider public is making of this show, people who aren't invested in the lore from the books but who just have some famiiiarity with the films. While I'm enjoying the show (and I know there are plenty of others too), I do not like the likes of Lenny Henry and others refusing to listen to any criticism because of some initial, very small group of people making racist comments and lumping everyone under that. Again, it's nothing particularly unusual in these things (I suspect it's happening with 'She-Hulk' right now for example) but surely it's in their interest to take on board some points. I mean, if nothing else, it's pretty much universally agreed that Elrond/Durin are a good pairing and that Galadriel is cold and unlikeable. Maybe the latter is by design but, if it is, they'd want to give us something to make us care a bit more soon.

Widdensushi · 08-10-2022 7:33pm

It makes the Lord of the rings look like some value

johnnyskeleton · 08-10-2022 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718059#Comment_119718059

I know youre being tongue in cheek but I really dont care about all this controversy. I dont think they preempted bad publicity though - I think they genuinely thought that the show would be good.

But like, how do you give a billion dollar television project to two guys who have never made a television show before? Surely if Amazon had any sense they would recognise that mistakes were made and bring in a professional crew!

JRant · 08-10-2022 8:15pm

Well, the fact that season 2 is in pre-production now but they say it'll be a couple of years before it's released indicates to me a massive rethink is happening behind the scenes.

I sincerely hope they replace those two writers asap because they couldn't write a decent character if their life depended on it. They've somehow managed to turn a character like Galadriel into a cold heartless monster, which in fairness takes some doing. I think they've forgotten who the actual enemy was supposed to be in this series.

How do you have 7 hours of content about the rings of power and really not even mention them once or start to set the scene for their creation.

pjohnson · 08-10-2022 8:19pm

Ditching Galadriel in Season 2 and focusing instead on Elrond and the Dwarves would make it a much better season.

JRant · 08-10-2022 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718803#Comment_119718803

Which should be easily achieved. Galadriel isn't a "main" protagonist when it comes to the rings. There's a lot of rings to be dished out, 19 in total, and little to no ground work laid. They've 9 men to find, 7 dwarfes, and 3 elves, plus the one to rule them all.

A semi decent writing team would have clearly worked some sort of arc as the the how and why by now, rather than the swashbuckling adventures of an evil Elf that we've been served to date.

TomSweeney · 08-10-2022 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718059#Comment_119718059

Of course it was, why do you think Disa was paraded so much in the marketing for this and she's not even in it that much, they wanted to blame the "raccccsssiiiiisssmmm".

Ironically enough she is one of the better characters in the show.

Ken Tucky · 08-10-2022 10:54pm

It's very hard for anyone to die in this

I find it's actually getting worse as it goes along. Don't think I can keep watching tbh.

Couldn't care less about any of the characters, after 7 episodes that's some achievement

y0ssar1an22 · 08-10-2022 11:11pm

i still dont know the overarching idea of this show.

what has happened celebrimbor? think he was on the 1st 2 episodes?

silverharp · 08-10-2022 11:27pm

total filler episode , Galadriel is awesome as ever, not a singe on her hair ,just covered by some Cheetos but somehow the not Hobbits who must be a good distance away are getting hit by flaming rocks. Galadriel stays evil, just walks away with people screaming in the background lol, and all the scenes of people looking for each other didnt make sense, its not LA, then where did they get the materials to build their next camp? why was Halbrand who was laid up with a severe stomach wound able to get on a horse in the next scene for a ride that could take weeks?. The female Dwarf suddenly goes all Lady Macbeth lol, The not hobbits scene was hilariously bad, last episode they think the tall fella- is causing bad things and this episode they want to ask him to fix everything. The text of Southlands changing to Mordor, seriously? this is money laundering?, invoice fraud scam innit?

the dialogue is so disconnected and its like the writers havnt watched their own show up to this point. Overall the the show is so damaged now that its not coming back from this. Unless you coincidentally have an Amazon account , nobody is going to take out a subscription to watch the next series in two years time.

byrne249 · 08-10-2022 11:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119719451#Comment_119719451

Loved Galadriels little twirl to avoid the horse at the start! Twas a thing of beauty! On the topic of dialogue. The episode started off with no dialogue and for a moment it felt almost good. Then they started talking again! The funniest disconnection was the female not-hobbit who demanded to take their wheels a couple eps ago is now 'always right' according to Lenny Henry. hmmm...

Loafing Oaf · 09-10-2022 12:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717424#Comment_119717424

The bad guys, by contrast, have understandable and relatable motives. The orcs are judged as evil by the other races because of how they look, but really they just want a place to live and not be hunted etc. Adar cares for the orcs like they are his children and exercises mercy on others. He is reasonable and is just trying to lead his people to safety.

Maybe they're not making a prequel to LOTR but to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

The Last Ringbearer (Russian: Последний кольценосец, Posledniy kol'tsenosets) is a 1999 fantasy fan-fiction book by Russian author Kirill Eskov. It is an alternative account of, and an informal sequel to, the events of J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings...Eskov bases his novel on the premise that the Tolkien account is a "history written by the victors".[2][3] Eskov's version of the story describes Mordor as a peaceful constitutional monarchy on the verge of an industrial revolution, that poses a threat to the war-mongering and imperialistic faction represented by Gandalf (whose attitude has been described by Saruman as "crafting the Final Solution to the Mordorian problem") and the racist elves.

I can see that appealing to Bezos and techies generally...

jones · 09-10-2022 8:37am

Episode 7 was definitely a filler episode after the (IMO) genuine high of episode 6. This show has a lot of issues but again I'm surprised how overly negative most people seem to be about it. While I realise it's not perfect, the writing is hit and miss, some of the main characters are just **** BUT I'm still enjoying the return to middle earth for all is faults.

On people saying about the strong reviews at the start but not much since I think that's in line with the episodes. The opening two episodes were very strong I thought, with a lull between episodes 3 and 5 before the excitement of 6.

I enjoy the harfoots scenes but they have wrung all tension out of the strangers intentions, in almost every episode there's a scene to show he's good but then something bad happens and he looks confused. We need to find out exactly who he is in the finale. They should have resolved this before now. I do think the stranger is well done just his vague motivations are a little overplayed at this point.

Elrond and Durin are great and the one actual believable relationship in the show. The King Durin is also very good and in general the dwarfs/elf relationships are one of the better elements to the show. The elf's apart from Elrond come across a bit aloof but this could be the point.

Galadriel is a problem, I think they tried too hard to give her an arc by making her so driven that it's backfired as she comes across as generally unlikeable. The whole scene with Adar was crazy as all it did was highlight Adar's cause and not the protagonist. Maybe this was the point but not sure you want the audience rooting for the bad guys in a fantasy story. She seemed to soften a bit in episode 7 so let's see what happens next week.

Elendil is a decent character but I agree with previous poster, I found it odd that Queen didn't even know him in episode 3 to him being her lead commander on the trip to the mainland. I think they have really fumbled the númenóreans in general. Isildur is another odd one, much like Galadriel he's just a bit of a **** really. The never explained the call he was hearing or even referenced where it was to. Why are two of the big historic characters in lord of the rings such fuckers. It has to be deliberate you'd think but not sure what they are going for. Insert character arc here maybe ha

As I mentioned earlier visually and musically this show is firing on all cylinders. I don't get some people saying the CGI is patchy, I've a decent OLED TV and this show in 4k dolby vision is one of the best things I've ever watched visually.

09-10-2022 4:45pm

Some of it has been great but this was the worst episode of anything I've watched in a long time.

liamtech · 09-10-2022 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717424#Comment_119717424

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718608#Comment_119718608

Your review is spot on. 100% agree with you - My honest take is that this is a terrible show, when taken as 'simply a new TV show' - When actually compared to the source material, and Tolkien's Lore - it is abysmal. I remember seeing a reviewer look at Cowboy Bebop - he decided to watch the Netflix version first. His response to it was negative. Very poor. But when he then watched the original Anime - he responded with vitriol and rage, shouting that 'MY GOOD THEY BUTCHERED THIS'

That is how i feel. And your review covered the how, the why, and the where this went wrong. Both as a TV show, and as a Tolkien adaption

Where i would disagree with you slightly, is on the controversy - Whether or not Amazon knew it was this bad, for me is beside the point. it is 'what happened next' that really angered me

Many Tolkien Fans, who did take offence to the ethnic changes among the elves were simply referred to as Racists
Reviews on Amazon and IMDB were blocked, rendering IMDB hopeless as a platform IMHO
Actors and producers addressed all criticism of the show by referencing supposed racism among 'toxic fandom'
Shills demolish criticism of the show, by continually referring to the show as breathtaking, and fantastic.
The show runners LITERALLY LIED THROUGH THEIR TEETH, by stating they were remaining loyal to Tolkien Canon (they did so on camera and in many print interviews)
Specific criticisms aside from ethnicity were met with carefully prepared responses. Dont like Galadriel? You must be opposed to strong female character's in lead roles
All criticism online was conflated with racism and review bombing, as highlighted by myself and others including @TomSweeney

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/the-rings-of-power-showrunner-addresses-patently-evil-racist-backlash-3323974

Its bad faith, spin. its absurd and very derogatory toward fans of Tolkien, and yes. It angers me quite a bit

Curse These Metal Hands · 09-10-2022 6:32pm

The text changing from Southlands to Mordor was one of the most cringe inducing moments of the series so far.

Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

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Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] Spoilers