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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nope. That's not on the table. Bringing people back in wouldn't conserve energy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    We have a housing crisis and failing environmental targets especially with regard to transport.

    And we are slowly returning to the office.

    I'm not sure logic comes into it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 WonderWall78


    What department is that? Wonder if every department is keeping watch, hopefully not. I’m guessing it would be an issue with HR because of tax reasons?


    Dept of Foreign Affairs seems to be an excellent department, who knows I could end up in that department one day 😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    We have a few staff members who routinely connect from UK IP addresses, whether that means they're NI border commuters it's not possible for me to tell (and none of my bloody business anyway). As long as I'm satisfied it's actual employees connecting from a device approved by us I couldn't give a fiddler's where they are, but I'm not HR.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I dont know your circumstances but if CS or PS, the taxpayer is paying your salary. You are free to do a hdip on the side on your time. However, saying you can duck and dive with the best of them or that you may go sick for six months is not a good read or vibe.

    Clearly you don't have loyalty to those that pay for your salary, Joe and Mary Taxpayer, or your colleagues that may have to do your work when sick or ducking and diving.

    I work in a commercial state company and comments like you make eminate from or lead to a toxic culture. That may come from top down but no one wants to work with people that are not team players or just interested in getting the best out of things for themselves. I had someone like that on my team and people don't take them seriously or regard them. They left before they were sacked for repeated ducking and diving and excessive sick leave.

    Blended working on a 2 plus 3 at home or 3 plus 2 at home is pretty good deal from where we were end of 2019. Some people still have to go to their offices every day, with no choice on it.

    We are 2 plus 2, with day 5 based on business needs. Yes, I get more done at home, but I still think its reasonable to be expected to attend the office and interact with colleagues face to face.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Oh, I always wondered where my salary came from. Thanks!

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    You are welcome. Value it, its not guaranteed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme



    No idea why you are bringing grade level into it. Letting rip at colleagues and then giving his manager a earful the next time he can "corner" is far beyond voicing an opinion. Its worrying that you even need that explained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Because the lower grades had no input into something that effects them massively. If people wonder why unions are still popular in PS this is why.

    Expecting people to accept this quietly is a bit unrealistic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme



    Welcome to the world of work, where staff very rarely get to make organisational decisions into things that effects them. And there's also nothing the Union can do about it either.


    The reality is that it is up to the maamagement board in the each Department to make the decision on what the blended working policy will be.


    It could well be the case that the performance of the unit, and the staff in the unit, had drastically dropped when wfh and they simply can't be trusted to do a good enough job unless supervised in person.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    I can't believe people think they are the victim in a situation, where they are the one who "lets rip" and gives somebody an earful, just because they are not personally happy with a decision made by somebody higher up whose responsibility it is to make that decision.

    It never ceases to surprise me, how so many public service employees think it's fine to behave the same as you might at home or in the pub at the weekend over a business disagreement, when there is a clear chain and structure of decision making. It's basic respect at work, and those "letting rip" over blended working may soon find themselves with bigger problems to face than having to come into the office for an extra day a week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭xeresod


    Probably just a keyboard warrior, and in reality he just sat there as meek as a lamb 🤣

    I know the blended working policy in my last place wasn't popular (and I didn't like it either, but it's came from A. Sec. level) and I've overheard rants from staff about it, but when given the opportunity nobody "let rip" at either myself or my APs.....quite the opposite in fact, most said they'll just have to get on with it, it's better than fulltime in the office!

    (And I've just transferred departments where there's nothing official in place, and no sign of a policy any time soon, but the work is done well with everybody pretty happy as they have a choice of anywhere between 1 to 5 days in the office!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Your bias is revealed in your last comment.

    The all the data shows in the vast majority of cases wfh is more productive than being in the office. But that management mostly have trust issues and don't believe in it. But realize they will have retention and recruitment problems without it going forward.

    In my experience this is because the majority of places don't have metrics on productivity other than people in seats. More over they don't know how to measure productivity.

    This is why there a big push to return to the office despite all the stats. Not to mention issues with housing, green targets with transportation etc. It's myopic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Your places sound very submissive and meek. People in our place are not so shy about disputes and letting people know they won't be walked over.

    They tried to get rid of loads of things in our place and eventually had to back down. Though a combination of staff pressure and union involvement.

    Coming from the private sector its interesting to watch the bureaucracy and politics at work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme



    "Vast majority of cases". And how do you know the unit the poster is in, isn't one of the minority of cases? I think the only bias on show here is yours tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not sure you understand the point of metrics and stats. Or bias in this situation.

    But let's go with your idea (much more scientific) and assume his unit is the dirty dozen of the CS.

    Lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Augme



    Feel free to show me the stats and metrics that show Civil Servants have been productive at home then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I said metrics in general. Not metrics on civic service. Metrics on productivity are not popular in CS or PS.

    We've actually had IT projects killed or hobbled when it was realized they were capturing analytics on such things. Either by union or management.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not that it matters or will dictated from above anyway.

    We are going to have an anchor days where everyone comes in. That we no longer have enough desks or computers in the office to facilitate that they don't feel is an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Exactly. Metrics on productivity are not popular in the CS - this speaks volumes. If people want to work remotely they need to embrace transparent, fair metrics on productivity. You can't have one without the other. If remote working allows the introduction of productivity metrics I would be all for it and it would be a fantastic development. As long as Civil Servants continue to refuse to discuss or measure their output in any way, it leaves lots of opportunity for taking advantage or "ducking and diving" as another poster admitted to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Union involvement doesn't appear to have featured much in arriving at Blended Working policies. I'll have figures tomorrow!

    As long as Civil Servants continue to refuse to discuss or measure their output in any way, it leaves lots of opportunity for taking advantage or "ducking and diving" as another poster admitted to.

    Don't generalise. I've had KPIs or measurable targets/goals to meet in several CS roles. Obviously, it's easier to have those in administrative areas than policy, but they're far from uncommon!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Our KPIs are usually very vague and as you say administrative. Because they are often tick box exercises in reality.

    If you are working with Contractors or vendors where everything is cost driven the difference is stark.

    We do generate lots of stats for data analytics. But they tend to be outward facing. Not internal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I think you're reading way too much into it tbh. But if people are being dicked around for no reason they have every right to be angry about it.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I've a lad going home for 6 weeks, two weeks of that working. Great lad and trust him.

    Home is a few thousand miles away.

    Hr policy allows this and I imagine its are cool (good lads but sometimes say "computer says no").

    I couldn't care about flexi time. Cool boss of mine, so our thoughts are what goes around comes around. If you need to feck off at 15:00 for something, grand. Don't be telling me you'll start early or have a short lunch. You worked until 19:00 last Thursday!

    This type of strict stuff is counter productive. Just be like the fonz!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The poster you are replying to does not work in the CS, but sure everyone who doesn't work there thinks they're an expert...

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 WonderWall78


    A few thousand miles? Guess I shouldn’t feel so bad about maybe going to Northern Ireland and working up that way for 3 days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    He's a great lad. And I called hr to get the rule (I'd have said fire away anyways). Happened to be grand and we're close to IT.

    Give a bit, get a lot.

    Strict procedures would get my heckles up. If they're that strict I'd work to the second (actually I wouldn't because I'm an eejit). I'd encourage the lads to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I said I'm not in the CS not that I don't work in or with the CS (and PS). I work with both a lot for years. Well used to the mindset and work practices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,050 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Thank f I don't work with you even if all that ranting and raving to your bosses was in your head



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,050 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    There is a difference of voicing an opinion which my section did a few weeks with our higher ups and letting it rip on your PO and going to corner your manager to let her have it



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