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The Pushback against Leftism

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The point she’s making is that others are making the huge deal on the identity politics issue. She’s just answering the question, putting things in context.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Oh those protes... sorry men up to know good again. Some Cant help themselves If I said "black" in that context ? But because it's cis can be said out loud. Would that not be hate speech in relation to a group of people all being labeled. Actually If she wanted to be factual Men are at the most risk from other men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Have you been drinking? I’ve genuinely no idea what point you’re trying to make. All but the last sentence is gobbledygook.

    Anyway, grifters keep on grifting, and suckers keep on paying.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Unfortunately I cannot help with reading comprehension. I guess Only people in Ireland would get the joke reference. Drinking nah wish I could working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Are you saying the vast majority of cis women oppose trans womens rights?

    Post edited by Annasopra on

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Blue and pink are also referring to the sexes.

    I don't use the term gender anymore anyway. Because it was traditionally associated with sex. So it creates too much confusion, maybe deliberately.

    So I simply refer to someone's personal expression. And within the binary of sex, you can have an infinite of personal expressions.

    Keeps things much simpler and is completely accurate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Some on the idealogically far right imagine they are on the vanguard of some wave of trans rejection. The sad reality for them is most people are utterly indifferent. They imagine this will finally be the galvanizing idea that launches a return to conservative values. Just as in the case of abortion in America they will get a brutal awakening when the real pushback comes like a tidal wave and sweeps them to political oblivion. People start paying attention when they see their real tangible rights been removed and understand where this leads.

    Always delusional and always on the wrong side of history.

    Post edited by Shoog on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you agree that racial segregation was on the wrong side of history, and it clearly was, it's now making a comeback - by the left.

    Just when you think this kind of nonsense cannot sink any further, racial segregation is introduced.

    Students at the University of Westminster were told by its union in an email that some of the events would be 'reserved for black students to encourage a safe space for discussions and honest conversations'.

    But social anthropology lecturer at Edinburgh University Dr Neil Thin hit back and branded the move 'tragic', accusing the London university of copying racial segregation 'previously seen in South African and USA education systems'. 

    Dr Thin said: 'It is bitterly ironic to see the rhetoric of 'safe spaces' abused to justify racial segregation. 

    'Nothing is more likely to make social spaces unsafe than this kind of wilful sowing of interethnic suspicion and division.'

    Utter madness.

    Imagine if there were a student event that "banned black people". There'd rightly be an uproar!




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Safe spaces are appropriate in certain situations. Do you imagine it would be acceptable to have a homosexual support group that allowed fascist homophobes to attend ?

    Any group can make themselves a closed group - it is their right.

    As is fairly typical with your contributions - they lack nuance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    I know ecactly the point she is making as do thousads of others in scotland and the general concensus is that she seems more interested in identity politics than independence, she is also a hypocrit, she said the indy refrendum was a once in a lifetime event then changed her mind when she lost, she also said that the eatablishment was scaremongering when the Indy refrenedum was current and then did the same thing herself when the brexit debate was current. I would have voted for independence because it might have made things better.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    '

    Like, it was a tweet from Farage quoting the daily mail.. it's obvious to most people, or anyone even, with common sense that it was going to either miss the point entirely and/or lack any nuance or detail.

    Which is incredibly ironic, given this particular poster like to keep going on about 'common sense' and 'most people'..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We're not talking about support groups, though. And funny you bring that up, because many female support groups are unhappy that trans women are allowed to attend. So, you chose a bad example to prove your point.

    Your example is silly because homophobes are unlikely to actively want to attend a homosexual support group.

    But many white people may very well want to be involved with black history events and so on. You are comparing fascist homophobes to white people, in other words, putting them in the same category as "potentially predatory" to be around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The circumstances post referendum were radically changed by Brexit - something the anti-independence campaign assured the Scots would never happen. This in of itself is a basis for a rerun of referendum.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i think "all or nothing" across every facet of socially/economically left/liberal leaves any movement unwilling to prioritise or compromise fatally vulnerable to attack by a hostile media and the obvious combined interests of business/capital/whatever


    if corbyn, for instance, had dropped say ten percent of the far end of his stance on some of the items the general public either found unpalatable or simply not a priority, he was probably going to be prime minister and still have the most ambitious left manifesto seen in britain since the 1970s


    he wasnt willing or able to do that and left/liberal discussion on message boards today still revolves around the same three or four twitter sticking points that really shouldnt be standing in the way of obliterating vested interests like the tories.


    i think online social liberal inflexibility has done more damage than that grouping will ever admit, because the right will never apologise for doing what needs to be done to maintain its interests, while the left will tear itself apart before it makes a compromised decision.


    and so it goes



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I am simply saying - that events and groupings can impose rules.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    You actually believe Nicola Sturgeon had greater political aims than independence?

    Or it's more likely that (as usual) the opposing sides have more of a vested interest in running an interference game by repeatedly asking the same questions over and over.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yet a majority of Scottish people are against holding the referendum that Sturgeon wishes to implement next year.

    But a poll carried by Survation found that just 35 per cent of voters in Scotland agree that a referendum on leaving the UK should take place next year, with 53 per cent against, and 12 per cent declaring they don't know.

    So this is very much just your preference. The vast majority of Scottish people do not want what you would prefer they undertake.

    Your reference to Brexit can be dismissed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    That's not what segregation means!

    For it to be segration, you'd have to find a similar whites only event.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Again not addressing the point I made, the referendum was only a once in a lifetime event if the promises made by the remain campaign were honoured - which they were not. Sturgeon is perfectly right to ask for a second referendum in the radically changed circumstances and it is the primary reason for her parties existence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    This thread is turning into the pushback against the pushback against leftist because the initial pushback has gotten just as hysterical and ignorant in scrambling for 'evidence' as the woke crowd.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I think you grossly misunderstand the level of establishment pushback that Corbyn got. Every single establishment body launched vocal campaigns against him, including the Parlimentary Labour Party and the Guardian Newspaper. Nothing he could have done would have brought them onside with his campaign - no amount of policy adjustment.Just about all of his policy platform was actually widely supported in the public sphere.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A referendum that nobody wants, sure.

    No, it's not actually.

    That's just the kind of comment you get from a side that's losing the argument.

    No, you don't.

    If there were white events that banned black people, you don't need to find the reverse in society in order to identify that event as racist and apartheid in effect.

    By classifying the black-only events as "safe spaces", it necessarily implies that white people, on the whole, are somehow a threat to black people.

    That is a racist declaration, as it would be if white people sought a "safe space" from black people.

    The principle is exactly the same, and equally as racist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Anyone can impose rules on attendance at their events - if they can find a space that will host them - that includes women, whites, gay and trans people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They can impose whatever rules they wish.

    What we're saying is that these rules are racist, apartheid rules.

    No amount of linguistic obfuscation can escape that conclusion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I would disagree - and it really shows that you don't understand the nature of apartheid.

    your drifting down that hysterical outrage path again.

    Surely you understand that there is a certain type of person who's only reason for attending an event/meeting is to disrupt it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,365 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    That's just the kind of comment you get from a side that's losing the argument.


    Why do think it's about 'winning' and 'losing'?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    if it was more to do with specific point of my post then i would certainly have done so.


    what happened to corbyn was a hatchet job, as ugly and obvious as anything- absolutely no doubt about that


    the likes of kuenssberg are still eradicating whatever traces of his legacy they can find embers of.


    and i take your point that the combined force of the establishment, including all those elements youve pointed out, would never have been satisfied with any compromises he made.


    but, even though his manifesto/positions were broadly popular with the voters, i still think that "all items are the priority" or perhaps i should finesse that to read "i will allow our campaign to become about defending x or y specific point until its far more to the fore than it should be" was the fatal flaw.


    if you would respond with "they would have found something else to scupper him with" then yes id agree with that also, i should acknowledge that he was somewhat of a miracle at all to get as close as he did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Fine Gael TD Charlie Flanagan has become the first senior Government politician to publicly raise concerns about the use of the UK’s Tavistock clinic for Irish children that require gender identity treatment.


    Goodness me what do you have here. Charlie Flanagan who I recall some time ago talking about the 'far right' in Ireland is now demanding a probe in the HSE's ties with the UK's gender clinics. I wonder what revelations he became aware of that would have motivated him to demand this. He's not been listening to the far right surely? Don't think it could have been anything on RTE with the no debate policy as instructed by Johnathan from Gogglebox. I have to say with a mug on him like that I've always suspected he couldn't be a progressive leftist at heart. Maybe he's some kind of infiltrator or something like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, because history tells us that white people are never even 'potentially predatory' towards black people.




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You do understand that generalisations and collective punishment of a race is...racist?



This discussion has been closed.
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