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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭oceanman


    but thats all it is, circumstantial...not hard evidence. and no there is not loads it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    You can get a conviction on circumstantial evidence mainly as Aaron Brady and a number of others have found out. BUT, the issue with the circumstantial evidence in Baileys case is that many of it was given by completely unreliable sources/ex cons/agendas against Bailey types who when it came down to it, didnt stack up. On top of this, the gards were bribing/intimidating/coercing local people to go against Bailey and invent sightings because of this etc. This has been reported many times & local people in a rural area like that would have always believed anything the gards were telling them.

    The biggest things that point to Baileys innocence for me is that he was willing to give his DNA despite not knowing if they had retrieved any DNA or not, the sheer energy it would have taken to murder someone in a violent manner, in the middle of the night or morning, walk a couple of miles after boozing and then get up early to report on this murder all the while where his partner and her kids didnt suspect a thing. His eagerness to continue living in the area, his letters to the Garda Commissioner urging him to properly reopen the investigation among many other things.

    If he did commit it, he is some sort of genius with balls the size of balloons where hes willing to risk his freedom by encouraging garda commisioners to reopen the investigation

    Do I think hes a nice man, no, but I think he deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty especially because of how this investigation was handled. The gards only have themselves to blame for screwing up this investigation



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is loads of it and saying it is only circumstantial means you do not understand how that works. And he knew they could take forensic samples by force so giving them first means nothing only playing innocent



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭oceanman


    well why dont you explain to me how it works so? .. because 26 years later the police still cant find enough evidence to charge him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    The scene wasn’t preserved, it was trampled all over. Any forensic expert will tell you that outdoor crime scenes are difficult to get DNA from, even if preserved well. If stored items are stored properly it’s possible to get dna decades later using new technology. Loads of cold cases have been solved this way in recent years. It didn’t have to be blown away, it’s obvious the Gardai did such a botch job in every other area that we can assume the same went for this.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you don't know how it works why say there is not much. I never said enough to charge him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    “Killer at the crime scene” on YouTube is really insightful about forensic harvesting and the importance of scene preservation, even nowadays with all the technological advances. Watching that makes you realise it’s no wonder there was No dna evidence apart from what was on Sophie’s body.

    again, this does not make Bailey innocent, more like lucky.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Could be some on the block with new technology



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    He’s a narcissist. His unwillingness to leave the area, arrogance of thinking there’s no dna and writing to drew Harris are typical narcissistic behaviours. Thinking he’s cleverer than everyone and goading people is narcissistic behaviour.

    there’s countless examples of killers who do this type of thing. Taking cases against the papers and the Gardai; again, narcissistic behaviour. There was a case of an honour killing in the U.K. and the father was so outraged he’d been accused of murdering his daughter he tried to sue the police. He played the victim and kicked up a huge fuss, before he was eventually charged and imprisoned.

    bailey is a fantasist which is typical of malignant narcissism, he quite possibly has convinced himself he didn’t do it or invented a scenario in which he’s justified it.

    just my opinion. Not saying he’s guilty, just that the things you’ve pointed out in no way mean he’s innocent.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    An element of narcissism though is self preservation. He hasnt shown much of that, if he was one, he wouldve no doubt have kept his mouth shut, not reported on the crime & moved away from the area asap.

    I think narcissism itself though is a word bandied about too much. Theres some narcissism in everyone, doesnt make them a psychopathic murderer though.

    I can understand the belief that he was horny after a feed of pints or spirits, saw the lights on in her house from a distance, put Jules to sleep & then fancied his arm for a shag. Wouldn't be the first man or woman to try it certainly. When it went wrong, given how drunk he might have been, he lashed out & then realized he had to kill her otherwise he'd be locked up.

    But thats where it ends.

    No DNA, no credible witness statements, no credible sightings of him in him in the vicinity of the crime, no real motive(outside of sexual which is debatable).

    His behavior. Reports on the crime hours after he committed it, attending a local community event, writes numerous articles on the murder, stays in area of said crime, petitions gards commissioner to reopen the investigation etc

    Either hes one of the best murderers who got away with it out there or hes a victim



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,832 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    What type of forensics are they talking about though? Nobody was looking for DNA as in touch transfer or skin cell DNA in 1996. They were looking for visible physical items such as blood, hair, fibres.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, I agree with all of this.

    But I would add another....no apparent motive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    AGS admit he is no longer the primary suspect. I'd advice everyone takes this on board and moves on, as they finally have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Which of today`s papers is running this story?



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Ms Robini


    “Either hes one of the best murderers who got away with it out there or hes a victim”… or he’s neither of these and up to now he’s just been lucky to get away with it in terms of being held accountable under the Irish criminal justice system to date. As for ‘best murderers’ - well, hardly. He’s been convicted of the murder in one jurisdiction and is the prime suspect in an open murder investigation in another.

    Based on what we know of his life, Ian Bailey has never been ‘the best’ at anything. He seems to be without any discernible talent (other than for self-promotion) and has been a failure in his personal and professional life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    Malignant narcissists are more self destructive than the classic profile. Quite the opposite to keeping quiet and staying away, they typically insert themselves into the case, revisit the crime scene, even are outwardly helpful to the investigation. They thrive on the attention and media attraction. Look at Ian Huntley for a prime example of this.

    agreed, the word gets bandied about too much, but in baileys case he meets the criteria.

    I don’t think the official narrative is right either, shur it doesn’t make sense. I think a car was probably used and/or it was early morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    They weren’t but as dna technology was new the general thinking was to keep items for when the science had advanced. Even nowadays, they harvest absolutely everything, because they don’t know what will be relevant and what won’t. This wasn’t done in this case, not even close.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    Maybe we’ll take it on board if we actually see it for ourselves instead of you expecting us to take your word for it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Irish Independent

    Ali Bracken

    May 29 2022 02:30 AM


    Ian Bailey, the former chief suspect in the murder of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier, says he plans to produce his own podcast and documentary series about the infamous killing.”

    ———————————————

    Irish Mirror 17 th Aug.;

    Former murder suspect Ian Bailey is hoping to launch his own podcast.

    The 64-year-old – who was the chief suspect in the murder of Sophie Toscan Du Plantier – revealed on his social media he was looking to find an experienced podcaster to help him with his new venture."

    Not Official sources, I know, but it appears the Gardaí are not looking at Bailey any more, they have nothing new on him. They are now looking elsewhere which should also have been done by the original team 1/4 century ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I don't think so, I mean what more investigating can be done on Bailey other than if DNA is found on the block or briars.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's not a source. Papers don't say who is a suspect



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    Ali bracken is a Bailey brown-noser. Papers have to word things a certain way to cover themselves legally.

    unless AGS state that he’s no longer the prime suspect, he still is.

    shur he says he is himself, and loves the notoriety



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Doesn't even reach the standard of bullshit. Any self respecting bullshitter would be ashamed to write it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Bailey could easily have taken a gamble on the DNA, submitting his DNA early on, well knowing that the police were incompetent of collecting DNA. He could always have used this behavior of his in his favor, insisting that he was the first to volunteer his DNA to be excluded. Bailey would also have taken a gamble that the police would have asked for DNA anyway, so he might as well be the first to volunteer it.

    Having said that, yes, he could have done it. He had the time, he had no alibi, large parts of the night unaccounted for, he could have hiked over there, involved Sophie in a conversation, then killed her and hiked back, - back to the Studio, cleaned up, showered, prepared the overcoat to be burnt behind the studio. The article he was to write for the paper would have been written earlier, he would hardly have waited until the last day to hand it in to meet the deadline.

    However, I find this all implausible after several drinks and a night out in the pub, leaving no evidence at all, nothing, no DNA, no fingerprints, no fiber of clothes, nothing. Regardless of competence of the police or not, it's also hard to imagine they found absolutely nothing and Alfie and Shirley not hearing anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, in terms of plausibility, the Bailey proposition is hard to accept. The Alfie Lyons/Shirley Foster proposition is much more plausible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,982 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    But did the Gards not take his overcoat? Seemed to remember that in the Sheridan doc.

    The “Irish Columbo” said Bailey had burnt it but then there was a record of the coat being taken into evidence and returned in ribbons.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,365 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But how come we don't hear about the Alfie Lyons/Shirley Foster proposition ?

    For someone like me who takes a passing interest in this (Listen to the West Cork podcast, watched the Netflix show) I've not seen anyone elaborate on any Alfie Lyons/Shirley Foster proposition.

    If they are more plausible than Bailey why hasn't it got more traction?



This discussion has been closed.
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