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Iranian Women Protest and Burn Headscarves

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    Nice victim blaming going on there.

    Women the force that kept the sadistic cult of Isis going? Gimme a break. For every woman who genuinely supported it hundreds were abducted, enslaved, subjugated.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Except for all those slaves, of course. And indentured servants.

    There are a huge variety of customs involved when looking at the pagan societies, including the Celtic tribes who differed greatly in how women were treated, and the power they had in society. Sure, some pagan societies were very egalitarian, although the practical considerations of living in a world where physical strength ruled, would have seriously cut into any kind of equal treatment. In any kind of warrior based society, women wouldn't be able to compete due to the physical strength involved, but also the need to keep a breeding population safe.

    People have such romantic ideas about Pagan societies, and pagan religions..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    haha.. notice you didn't cry foul at the men "being blamed" earlier in the thread. There couldn't possibly be men who didn't behave the way described but still get lumped in with the whole gender? Probably because it's not about victim blaming, but acknowledging the realities of society. As opposed to ignoring the influence of women in religious organisations, and the impact they had on other women.

    Women the force that kept the sadistic cult of Isis going?

    Not what I said. So, perhaps deal with what's stated rather than arguing your own projected positions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    True but I cant think of any ancient/religion culture that has not had slaves and indentured servants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,648 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The risks of standing up to the religious police are huge




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  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    Let us hope the Iranian people can finally rid themselves of the vile unIranian socalled Islamic Republic ... it is a failed state ... failed revolution ... an inspiration for even worse regime ... a copy of Saudi Arabia ... it is no republic either but a monarchy and fascist state ... the far right nearly at their worst ... only ISIS Taliban Putin Al Qaeda Kadyrov Saudi Arabia are worse ...

    I hope the current movement in Iran ejects the far right dictatorship from there ... and then insires others to uprise and eject the other 6 far right regimes I list ... it is time that these countries are all free of wannabe Hitlers imposing fascist dictatorship and trying to justify it by some warped interpretation of religion and/or nationalism ... Karadzic must be getting lonely in prison so let's give him some company of his own kind ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    Men are 98 percent to blame for all this religious persecution of women down the ages, I'm not going to waste time worrying about the 2 percent of women who go along with it. Just strikes me as irrelevant to the bigger issue.

    Just look at the week's news. From Iran to Russia to Mexico and Thailand, always and everywhere the problem is (a minority of) men



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    A large part of the Russian problem is Russian women pushing their young men off to prosecute the fascist war.

    There's no shortage of videos of Russian women on social media covering the camera lens with spittle baying for Ukrainian blood. You'd have more respect for them if they strapped on a helmet and headed for the Donbas themselves. Reality only kicks in when their husbands, sons or brothers come back in black bags.

    The same phenomenon was seen in Britain with the White feather movement during WWI. Women (often upper middle class suffragettes actually) handing white feathers to working class men on the street as a symbol of their 'cowardice' for not going to die in the dirt in Flanders.

    I've seen enough of the world to know its a bit more than two percent of women that contribute to the cycle of violence and oppression around the map, and the social enforcement of toxic mores. Particularly women of the classes that benefit materially from oppression / imperialism / religious dogma (take your pick).



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    2% my arse. Especially if you consider mothers forcing religious practice on their children (and it was almost never fathers doing same, funny that)

    Anyone who went to a convent school will have stories to tell (and in my day even boys went there until 2nd class) Vicious b*tches the lot of them. But yeah, blame men.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    What a bundle of fun. Don't choke on the cat litter



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    This why History should be taught properly. With some things only positive is taught now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,782 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yet his point still stands, Islam is often taught best by the mothers, that is not a new observation and was not new a very long time ago.

    If it was only 2% or 22% it wouldn't be as it is.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ahh well, it's the best of both worlds. Women get all the kudos for religion changing, and none of the responsibility for how it was established, or evolved over time. You see the same logic or standard being applied to just about every part of society and culture.. with any suggestion otherwise, being relegated to victim blaming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    Of course some women are complicit in it. Plenty of black people were also complicit in the slave trade, it doesn't stop it being a primarily white crime. As with religion: men come up with the ideology, enforce it with violence, use it to oppress women, and some women are brainwashed into propagating it, that's what upbringing does. But men are the basic problem, always and everywhere. Like I say, just look at the week's news: violence and mayhem from Iran to Ukraine to Mexico and it's one sex/gender responsible for almost all of it. A minority of men, yes. But men all the same. The same the world over, in every country. Sorry, but these are the simple facts. It's a minority of men, but a minority that causes suffering to so many people, women primary among them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    You ooze hatred of half of humanity. The very definition of misandry



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That's a lot of revisionism dressed up as current feminism and from a secondhand American perspective with it. The slavery reference being an example of that. American thought seems to think slavery was Whites enslaving Blacks and that's where it began and ended.

    Of course some women are complicit in it. Plenty of black people were also complicit in the slave trade, it doesn't stop it being a primarily white crime.

    Slavery has no race. Indeed while White Europeans were drivers of the Atlantic slave trade, it was also White Europeans who banned it and banned slavery before the rest of the world and long before Black Africans did. First in Europe by the end of the middle ages and then bit by bit in their overseas empires. Black African cultures around the Slave Coast had slavery built in. They just saw the opportunities involved selling to the Europeans and Arabs and saw it as expanding an existing market. Old style slavery was still in play in Nigeria into the 1930's and modern slavery still is.

    As with religion: men come up with the ideology, enforce it with violence, use it to oppress women, and some women are brainwashed into propagating it, that's what upbringing does.

    Women are the more religious gender than men. While men tend to be the ones who drive culture women are more the guardians of culture in everyday life. Take a practice like FGM. Take a guess which gender is more likely to support it. In such cultures it's not the men breaking out the razor blades.

    But men are the basic problem, always and everywhere.

    Swap out beer for men. Who is more likely to be fighting such disorder? Who was far more involved in damned near every human right and comfort you hold so dear? Who is more likely to be enforcing all that?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    Your arguments can be turned right around: who fought for the advancement of most human rights? Your answer is: men. Yeah, of course, because for most of modern history women had no rights. Why? Oh yeah, cos men denied them those rights. Argument null and void.

    Same for upholding rights, fighting disorder: of course men did it, because men were the cause of all those things too and held the power.

    Global statistics: 98 percent of all homicides are done by men. 2 percent by women. That a majority of victims are also men doesn't change anything about who the perpetrators are.

    And all those teenage girls getting raped, murdered and tortured in Iran right now (some being raped before murder cos, you know, the religion says they can't die as virgins): it sure ain't women doing that.

    All men? Of course not. But a sizeable minority. Just like not all Russians are to blame for what's happening in Ukraine. But Russians all the same



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,782 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Since the late 700s slavery markets in West Africa were the world's largest, and all the rich kingdoms of West Africa then were built on slavery.


    Europeans went there for slaves because it was already established 8 centuries and at a massive scale.


    Slavery is still a problem there, always will be. Despite European guns abolishing slavery in most of the world to the anger of many nations.


    If you are or from West Africa then you will have a grand parent or great grandparent who was a slaver. If you are from the North of Nigeria you will have relations who probably still do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,782 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Outside of arming pro Western groups how can we stop this.


    The days of the West being strong enough to assert control in places like Iran to force a change in their value system and culture are over and in places like Iran were only every on the surface.


    Iran is like Afghanistan in many ways, even most of the people who dislike the Taliban types are still ultra religious and strict.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can’t quote just a segment but your first paragraph caught my attention. It would be more accurate to say that rights have been invented across societies in different ways over the centuries. In Western societies rights were linked to property owners and were limited not just by gender but by wealth.

    As rights were expanded particularly after 1688, the American and French revolutions they were expanded beyond property owners et al to bring in more of society. The French situation showed some change:


    So it’s more a process of power or agency in the current jargon being expanded into a language of rights than a simple gender issue. Women were at the bottom of the heap and the end of the queue without doubt. Did men put them there? Yes. But lots of others were denied agency too and that leads into the evolution of societies and deep water probably best researched and discussed elsewhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,947 ✭✭✭circadian


    Looks like refineries are now on strike, protests are gaining pace. I think they've passed the point of no return, the government will be overthrown eventually. Hopefully the people of Iran can replace it with something that benefits them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    It does look like some sort of tipping point has been reached.

    The Islamic Revolution was always an absolute pox, and the Iranian government has been acting the maggot exporting terror for decades. Lebanon for instance being in a constant state of near collapse can in large part be put outside Tehran's front door. The mess in Yemen is also a product of Iran's sh*tehawkery.

    Persians are no dummies - educated and really good people. The underlying culture is generous and outward looking, but their government is the pits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Blue is the colour


    The regime is nowhere near collapse. It's not even remotely threatened. They have layers and layers of ruthless internal security apparatus, many of which are ideologically driven and very thuggish. The top layer being completely loyal to the regime.

    Additionally, on the off chance that some angry women become a threat to the regime, they have shia militias dotted all around the M.E and of course Hezbollah too, which are one of the favourites in Ireland.

    And don't mistake this regime for the Shah, who when push came to shove, was not willing to mow down thousands in the streets. The current regime will kill thousands without giving it a second thought.

    These protests will lose steam, like all have done before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭lizzyjane


    Iran and Saudi Arabia is like Gilead.


    Two nations that are living in the stone age in terms of societal progress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭donaghs


    The Irish media can educate those hysterical Iranian women to cop on and celebrate the hijab

    ”…which is required by islam”

    coincidentally, the same date the Ayatollah Khomenei returned to Iran in 1979.



  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    Here ya go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭lizzyjane


    Didn't we have a Senator just a few months back calling for Ireland to have a day to celebrate the hijab.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Just like your woman that got Ribena and did not like statues. 🤔🤐🤑



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    IIRC there is nothing in said book only "Covering hair for modesty" that does not mean head to toe in black. That came on the back of interpretations the addon books. But the word of God cannot be interpreted as the original book says how do they square that circle.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m not that well versed in the Yemeni conflict but isn’t Saudi Arabia just as much to blame? Both having a proxy war there with little regard for civilians. As I said not that well versed on it. Regardless both the Saudi and Iranian regimes are scum.



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