Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

maninasia · 08-10-2022 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716490#Comment_119716490

UK is good if you are well educated. Lower taxes, lower cost of living, still plenty of jobs, housing generally cheaper and more available, wider range of industries. In my industry would be 10x jobs there than in Ireland. Plenty of Irish grads still moving there. UK is not good if you want to live off the state or on minimum wage .

US big cities are expensive but they pay 150k salaries to middle managers . Sales managers could be on 200k easily. Salaries are generally much higher there for professionals. Taxes lower. Healthcare expensive but get private insurance.

Healthcare access is not necessarily way worse than Ireland in the US. If you have private insurance healthcare is much better there actually. Swings and roundabouts.

By the way Japan isn't that crowded everywhere , you think Dublin and NYC aren't crowded?

Igotadose · 08-10-2022 10:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716582#Comment_119716582

You're talking through your hat. Housing is cheaper? Absolutely false, especially versus Ireland. Have you ever actually lived in the US? And, you didn't answer my question - what was the country you were talking about in your original post? The US? Japan? I think you're lying out and out to take a swing at the Ukrainian refugees. Pretty pathetic.

I can buy a very nice bungalow in West Kerry for 200k-300k euro, ready to move in. No chance anything even close in any US metro area. 150k sounds great - you pay 40% in taxes, 401k and possibly more in state and city tax, depending where you live. And it doesn't get you health care.

You might get good health care if your employer provides it. And, if your in an area where you're earning 150k, well, I was before moving to Ireland in 2015. Upper west side, NYC. Nice salary. 1 room grotto apartment - $3200/month. When we moved out, $3600 month and it rented in 2 weeks. That didn't include utilities ($200-300/month electric for computer + fridge, no TV) and minimal internet.

I could go on and on about US health insurance; like I said, US citizen now irish citizen. I will win that discussion so don't go there.

captain dildano · 08-10-2022 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711378#Comment_119711378

It's interesting that you should ask that. Perhaps you can help us with that information. As I've looked on various sites like Citizens Advice for travel information for Ukrainians and nowhere can I find that they are entitled to free travel, other than for 7 days from their date of arrival in Ireland which seems to be to enable them to travel to their new accommodation. Yet they are traveling for free certainly on buses. They have been given special cards which they give to the driver.

There's a big issue with it now between Limerick city and the Radisson hotel on the Clare border as well as Bunratty Castle hotel. There are so many on day trips to the city that when there are a lot of passengers at the main stop at Dunnes stores in the city that the driver has to ask if they are traveling past Bunratty, if not they have to wait for the next bus. Not discrimination, simply that it's gotten to a point where there are people crammed into the aisles with nowhere to sit and it's very difficult for people to get on and off the bus, not to mention extremely dangerous.

The situation is now that every single day time bus is late, every single one, because of the numbers involved and the language barriers. It's a nightmare for people traveling to work and for students heading to university. I can understand boredom and people wanting to get out during the day but when you are commuting to work and you're paying for a seat you can't get because of those day trips it's extremely annoying. They're making more on the Dole than I have left over at the end of the week.

There were 2 buses yesterday one behind the other, I wasn't working yesterday so I don't know if that's a new thing or a fluke. Given the invaluable 10 hours a week you provide drinking tea and eating biscuits with refugees at the local hotel perhaps you could ask them for us about why they are still getting free travel and if they'd use the buses as much if they had to pay the full fare?

08-10-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716676#Comment_119716676

If I knew the answer, I wouldn’t have asked the question.

Instead of addressing the question, you use it to have a pop at me and all the Ukrainian refugees. Charming.

maninasia · 08-10-2022 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716647#Comment_119716647

Hahahaha....Kerry.

Kerry vs NYC.

Is that the Irish Metropolitan Area you are talking about?😂😂

Don't be lecturing me about my own country lol you are making a fool or yourself here.

You were talking about 30k Houses in 1972 in NYC now going for 700k there.

You know what...Dublin city IS THE SAME. You really need to learn more about Ireland.

Kerry is in the Irish Metropolitan Area. 😉

maninasia · 08-10-2022 11:30am

Those asylum seekers interviewed in Kerry aren't Ukrainians I believe. 39 of them, single men, wedged together in a tent.

Nobody forced most of them to illegally enter Ireland and destroy their IDs. What do they expect? Most of them should not even be here. Tent is good enough for them.

TaurenDruid · 08-10-2022 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715358#Comment_119715358

Nah, you'll pluck magic figures out of the air. 8.51%? 70/154*100 = 45%. Not 8.51. Hint: again, we're talking about Dublin, not the whole country. But hey, you thought you could prove that wet Ukrainian-loving liberal wrong, so you jumped in with both feet.

No idea what the rest of your rant is about - you were the one who started talking about other countries, not me.

I'm also talking on-topic. The Fáilte Ireland stats are interesting, all right. Over 220,000 beds available - 147,000 if you only count hotels, 138,000 if you limit it to 4* or less. So, accommodation-wise, by numbers alone, we can certainly cope with 50,000 Ukrainian refugees and 10,000 Irish homeless, right now, before you even look at modular homes, repurposed institutions, and the like.

Given Ukraine is an emergency situation, and that we're absolutely right to take in refugees (we are agreed on that, aren't we?!), and we absolutely don't need that sort of hotel capacity in winter months, and hotels can't get staff, anyway, and many in rural areas were closing, then it does seem like temporarily housing people in hotels is win-win-win - we meet our international obligations, Ukrainians get accommodation, hotels get income that's badly needed after Covid lockdowns. Absolutely, it's unfortunate that some will and are exploiting the situation to price gouge, but that's capitalism for you. They've always done it.

It then comes down to who is paying for it, and better logistics, because it isn't fair that the rate per 100 of the population in some LEAs is only 0.07% compared to 7.87% in others. There should ideally be a more balanced distribution - but that does depend on accommodation being available in every LEA, which isn't the case.

CeCe12 · 08-10-2022 12:13pm

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-counties-that-welcomed-the-most-ukrainian-refugees-42049835.html

Breakdown of pledged accommodation per county.

TaurenDruid · 08-10-2022 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716036#Comment_119716036

I learned French in school. I can order a meal in a restaurant or ask which platform my train is leaving from - doesn't mean I can hold my own in conversation about current affairs, nor would I be able to do my job through French.

None of the 17,000 undocumented migrants were Ukrainian refugees so not sure of the relevance, there, at all. Anyone availing of that amnesty has clearly been able to provide for themselves, though, seeing as they're undocumented and unable to claim social welfare or housing.

08-10-2022 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716946#Comment_119716946

It’s interesting to see that around 14,000 Ukrainian refugees are either living independently or with relatives.

CeCe12 · 08-10-2022 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716989#Comment_119716989

Yes, I agree. The amount of pledges is not great though. I think the Government have over estimated the uptake they would have on this.

iamwhoiam · 08-10-2022 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717014#Comment_119717014

Many of the pledged houses were fed up waiting on word from anyone so took in people via Facebook or simply by contacting Grace Kennedy or Colm Smullen themselves .

08-10-2022 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717014#Comment_119717014

Around 50% of pledges were either rejected as being unsuitable or the offers withdrawn.

I would question the numbers in the Irish Times graph, as I am fairly sure that the Tipperary number is way out. There are two “reception” centres in the county and I’m fairly sure that they each have seen more than 400 EACH.

CeCe12 · 08-10-2022 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717046#Comment_119717046

I can appreciate that. It must also be very difficult to open your home to strangers for an undetermined amount of time if it was a co living situation. Also as you have done, my hat is off to you.

CeCe12 · 08-10-2022 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717052#Comment_119717052

How reliant on pledged accommodation are the Government becoming going forward? 🤔 Given the shortages of accommodation elsewhere.

Igotadose · 08-10-2022 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716731#Comment_119716731

You are saying, the country you're talking about, is Ireland, amiright? Where the healthcare access is much better than the US, probably better than the UK if you believe their complaining about waiting lists and trolley waits. And the average house price in the major metropolitan area is consistent with the rest of the world? Here are some CSO data on house price by Eircode. Gee, Dublin's the most expensive: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexmay2022/housepricesbyeircode/

And the highest median price is 720,000 Euro

NYC: 745,000

San Francisco: 1.4million

So, Ireland's doing about as well, as the rest of the world. Do you agree? And, as Dublin's prices have been going up for years, it's nothing to do with Ukrainian immigrants - do you agree? If you don't, show some data and don't invent countries that don't exist.

You might find this handy: https://archive.ph/D6LfV#selection-1313.0-1313.97

Dublin's the 25th highest city in terms of cost of real estate per sq. foot.

Boggles · 08-10-2022 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716582#Comment_119716582

Healthcare access is not necessarily way worse than Ireland in the US. If you have private insurance healthcare is much better there actually

US healthcare is a horrific bloated mess, the pandemic highlighted once and for all just how bad.

Igotadose · 08-10-2022 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717267#Comment_119717267

it's worse than that.

maninasia · 08-10-2022 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717164#Comment_119717164

Nobody can follow what you are saying DUDE. You are all over the map.

Now , back to the Kerry Metro Area where we have discovered that houses are cheaper than NYC.

Igotadose · 08-10-2022 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717497#Comment_119717497

let me dumb this down for you then.

You stated,

You have no right to tell somebody to leave any country. Why don't you take a flying jump yourself. I have lived abroad ,daily life such as access to healthcare or accommodation or public transport was much easier to be honest.

And I asked, where. It's not Ireland. It's not the US. Where?

Japan?

South Korea?

UK?

Where? Because the mass of data that you can't follow, points out that these things in Ireland are better than in the US, for example

CeCe12 · 09-10-2022 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717518#Comment_119717518

How rude of you to state you would need to dumb anything down for any other poster.

Yes, there are other countries who administer a better policy than our own trainwreck system.

Igotadose · 09-10-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720757#Comment_119720757

Feel free to report my post.

I tried asking nicely to get an answer to a fairly simple question, and haven't. I agree there are countries that do better than Ireland at similar tasks - not sure how countries of approximately the same size and budget do, but that's not what I asked. Plus I provided a lot of data on Ireland vs. European and US 'equivalents'

I'll note that @maninasia still hasn't answered my simple direct question:

You have no right to tell somebody to leave any country. Why don't you take a flying jump yourself. I have lived abroad ,daily life such as access to healthcare or accommodation or public transport was much easier to be honest.

And I asked, where. It's not Ireland. It's not the US. Where?

CeCe12 · 09-10-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720769#Comment_119720769

I can concur with you in regards to asking a question. That is fine, your subsequent appeal was in my perspective ill mannered to say the least.

Edit: I do not and have not reported any posts.

Beasty · 09-10-2022 5:38pm

Posts deleted - there is another thread covering non-Ukrainian asylum seekers/refugees - this one is to discuss Government policy re Ukrainian refugees

Beasty · 09-10-2022 11:38pm

ThoseSpikesAreSore threadbanned

enricoh · 11-10-2022 12:01pm

64k here now with a surge expected in the winter.we could easily have 100k+ here on the anniversary of the war starting. Leo says we can't cap numbers, can we cap payments to those in hotels instead Leo?!

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/leo-varadkar-says-we-cant-cap-numbers-of-ukrainian-refugees-even-if-we-wanted-to-42054032.html

UsBus · 11-10-2022 1:55pm

What on earth are this government at now.? Uprooting over 100 Ukrainian women and children from Killarney, moving them to Westport to make room for 100+ men from north Africa and Georgia...??? Insanity beyond belief. It's not like the Ukrainians haven't been through enough already. Why on earth are we accepting asylum seekers from Africa and unsettling Ukrainian people already settled in their communities with kids in schools, for the benefit of questionable asylum applications.?

This government is devoid of any backbone. They are turning this country into a right cesspit for anyone who fancies a shot at easy Street here. Disgusting what is happening here now.

11-10-2022 2:00pm

Over 40% of Ukrainians living in Ireland are living in 3 counties Dublin,Kerry and Donegal. Kerry and Donegal combined have more than Dublin.

UsBus · 11-10-2022 2:15pm

I've no problem with each county taking their fair share, if they are to come here. The numbers coming in are obscene to begin with and we are drowning as a country right now.

What I have a problem with, is unsettling a group of people after all they have gone through to make way for asylum seekers. If we are to look after Ukrainian people adequately, no way should we be accepting asylum seekers. We all know why they are coming here now with the Rwanda situation and the widely known fact that Ireland is a free ride for everyone now. The racist card being thrown at everyone worried about the influx will have dreadful consequences in the coming years.

TomTomTim · 11-10-2022 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730138#Comment_119730138

Westport? How did they find any space there? It's one of the driest places in the country when it comes to finding accommodation, arguably even worse than Dublin.

Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

Comments